RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore

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Lucylastic -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/2/2012 3:44:38 AM)
as I said on friday here, http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4226571 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Just like Michael Moore saying that Romney is gonna win.... yeah he said it, but the context is what counts You took your confirmation bias, fair enough, but you dont wish to argue on anyone elses comfort zone either, your safety sac, isnt everyone elses and vice versa. Just like the Fox lies , except when they get it right...... irony...

Musicmystery -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/2/2012 5:37:47 AM)
What a load of crap from you, Rich, as is getting usual. Moore expressed his own opinion. He does that a lot. From there you get a sweeping malaise spreading through half the political spectrum, and anyone who points out the leap is blind? Assumption and conjecture have become logic in your world. But it is still just your world. And no amount of jumping on others changes that, as much as you try to deflect it.

VideoAdminChi -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/2/2012 5:58:45 AM)
FR to several posters, Please stop making other posters the topic.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/2/2012 11:03:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Does anyone else find the pessimism on the left to be increasing? I find the most pessimistic people about the direction of the country are the Goldwater conservatives (for lack of a better term), because the Republican party just disenfranchised them, and they have never felt they had a home with the Democrats. I think it's quite possible that the most significant historical act by the Republican Party this election cycle was the changing of the rules about how delegates from state primaries are chosen. This cements party power in very few hands, and those hands have been leaning toward evangelicals, neoconservatives (read "spend spend spend" conservatives in the eyes of "historic" conservatives), and Tea Partiers with dubious understanding of science. If you believe in small government and fiscal responsibility, there's literally nowhere "official" to go. Frankly, I think this is the primary reason some Republican officials are actively trying to change the rules for voting to discourage Democratic participation: a segment of formerly bedrock Republican voters have become disillusioned by what's on offer, and are likely to stay home.

Restyles -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/2/2012 12:46:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I find the most pessimistic people about the direction of the country are the Goldwater conservatives (for lack of a better term), because the Republican party just disenfranchised them, Thats just silly. "Goldwater conservatives" were the first deficit hawks, and the Republican party has fully embraced those ideals in Ryan. Yes, initially BG was anti-tax cuts for 2 reasons. Politics (Kennedy embraced them) and a mistaken belief that DEFICITS cause inflation in and of themselves. After being schooled by Milton Friedman he embraced supply side economics, again fully embraced by the GOP.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/2/2012 1:55:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Restyles quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I find the most pessimistic people about the direction of the country are the Goldwater conservatives (for lack of a better term), because the Republican party just disenfranchised them, Thats just silly. "Goldwater conservatives" were the first deficit hawks, and the Republican party has fully embraced those ideals in Ryan. Yes, initially BG was anti-tax cuts for 2 reasons. Politics (Kennedy embraced them) and a mistaken belief that DEFICITS cause inflation in and of themselves. After being schooled by Milton Friedman he embraced supply side economics, again fully embraced by the GOP. I'm stating what I've materially observed, in conversations, etc. You may think the sentiments people are feeling are silly, but my experiences are real. As a strategic point, it's usually sloppy thinking to use phrases like "fully embraced by (major American political party)." Since the USA does not function like a European parliament, and we have a de facto two-party system, the Republican Party tends to be filled with people who think the Democrats are worse, and vice versa. It's not at all the same as saying that everyone who is a member of a party agrees with the platform of the party. If you find it easier, you could think of this another way. Remember the "former" Romney, who was pro choice and thought gay marriage was no big whoop. He changed position significantly, but there are a lot of people who call themselves conservative who have not. They don't trust the Democrats, but they also think the government has no right regulating human life in ways the evangelical wing is pushing so hard for. Well, where are those conservatives going to go? It's a long term problem for the GOP leadership; they are demoralizing that group of people.

dcnovice -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/2/2012 1:59:03 PM)
quote: They don't trust the Democrats, but they also think the government has no right regulating human life in ways the evangelical wing is pushing so hard for. Well, where are those conservatives going to go? It's a long term problem for the GOP leadership; they are demoralizing that group of people. If memory serves, Goldwater was fairly vocal about his unhappiness with the GOP's tethering itself to the religious right.

Musicmystery -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/2/2012 3:39:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Restyles quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I find the most pessimistic people about the direction of the country are the Goldwater conservatives (for lack of a better term), because the Republican party just disenfranchised them, Thats just silly. "Goldwater conservatives" were the first deficit hawks, and the Republican party has fully embraced those ideals in Ryan. Yes, initially BG was anti-tax cuts for 2 reasons. Politics (Kennedy embraced them) and a mistaken belief that DEFICITS cause inflation in and of themselves. After being schooled by Milton Friedman he embraced supply side economics, again fully embraced by the GOP. You drank the Kool-Aid deep. Republicans left fiscal conservatism with Reagan, quadrupling the national debt in just 8 years, when the National Debt Clock was started. Cheney was even proud of it, saying "Reagan proved deficits don't matter." Clinton turned this around to a solid fiscal path so successfully that the National Debt Clock was retired, no longer necessary. Until Bush pushed through unfunded tax cuts while exploding military spending, crashing the economy once but buying his way out with monetary policy, then crashing it again with interest rates so low they had nowhere to go. And the surpluses he inherited had long turned to deficits, the National Debt Clock long since returned to duty.

Restyles -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/3/2012 9:01:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: Restyles quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I find the most pessimistic people about the direction of the country are the Goldwater conservatives (for lack of a better term), because the Republican party just disenfranchised them, Thats just silly. "Goldwater conservatives" were the first deficit hawks, and the Republican party has fully embraced those ideals in Ryan. Yes, initially BG was anti-tax cuts for 2 reasons. Politics (Kennedy embraced them) and a mistaken belief that DEFICITS cause inflation in and of themselves. After being schooled by Milton Friedman he embraced supply side economics, again fully embraced by the GOP. I'm stating what I've materially observed, in conversations, etc. You may think the sentiments people are feeling are silly, but my experiences are real. Whatever it is that you observed, you obviously dont know what Goldwater or "Goldwater conservatives" were all about. Misattribution doesnt lend you "observations" any credence.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/3/2012 7:29:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Restyles Whatever it is that you observed, you obviously dont know what Goldwater or "Goldwater conservatives" were all about. Misattribution doesnt lend you "observations" any credence. I'm talking about people who are pro-states rights, who believe the federal government should be reduced in size and power, and who are in favor of civil rights for everyone, not just "their own kind." Like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater#Policies Are you in a bad mood today, or do you usually try to belittle the thoughts of others, without supporting your own positions?

Musicmystery -> RE: Realpolitik, with Michael Moore (9/3/2012 8:06:40 PM)
So far, it seems the latter.

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