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ORIGINAL: CRYPTICLXVI

*This thread has been an interesting example of Paradigm theory*

(See what you started Miss No Jelly)...

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Paradigm theory

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
i agree totally with you in that growing doesn't take personal acreage. but to feed the world en mass it does take the acreage. it would also have to be cheaper than it is now too. again, not sure how it is over there, but veggies here are expencive, and the average poor family could not exist alone on fresh veg.

I posted this article on the other thread.. according to some, that is exactly what will happen (due to water shortage).. but if veggies over there are expensive, then the meat must be even more expensive..

the original article- http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2012/aug/26/food-shortages-world-vegetarianism
"Scientists Predict The World's Population Will Become Vegetarian By 2050
A group of leading water scientists from around the world believe the world's population will have to completely switch to a vegetarian diet in 2050 because of food shortages, according to the Guardian.
As of now, most people eat 20 per cent of their protein from animal-based products and foods. However, scientists warn by 2050, this consumption number might have to drop down to five per cent to feed an extra two billion people expected to be alive, according to the research."
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/08/27/vegetarian-diet-scientist_n_1834182.html

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ORIGINAL: pyschosubmission

Water shortage? In Scotland?

Ahahahahaha

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

try telling that to my town that has been suffering floods all summer

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
it makes me chuckle somewhat that water, or rather the lack of it is what is making people think we will faze out meat. like crops of plants don't need water, or enrichment nurients, or air miles to provide a richer nutition/palet scource, or cold storage like meat.

the fact that education is going to cost a small fortune, and that you can not force people to give something up. the veggies will have to be come so cheap and the meat so expencive to make people change. good luck with that.

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
i agree totally with you in that growing doesn't take personal acreage. but to feed the world en mass it does take the acreage. it would also have to be cheaper than it is now too. again, not sure how it is over there, but veggies here are expencive, and the average poor family could not exist alone on fresh veg.

I posted this article on the other thread.. according to some, that is exactly what will happen (due to water shortage).. but if veggies over there are expensive, then the meat must be even more expensive..

the original article- http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2012/aug/26/food-shortages-world-vegetarianism
"Scientists Predict The World's Population Will Become Vegetarian By 2050
A group of leading water scientists from around the world believe the world's population will have to completely switch to a vegetarian diet in 2050 because of food shortages, according to the Guardian.
As of now, most people eat 20 per cent of their protein from animal-based products and foods. However, scientists warn by 2050, this consumption number might have to drop down to five per cent to feed an extra two billion people expected to be alive, according to the research."
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/08/27/vegetarian-diet-scientist_n_1834182.html

thanks for the links, i shall have a look tomorrow. meat here is relatively cheap unless it's outdoor and organically reared.

it makes me chuckle somewhat that water, or rather the lack of it is what is making people think we will faze out meat. like crops of plants don't need water, or enrichment nurients, or air miles to provide a richer nutition/palet scource, or cold storage like meat.

the fact that education is going to cost a small fortune, and that you can not force people to give something up. the veggies will have to be come so cheap and the meat so expencive to make people change. good luck with that.

oh, and for the one who made the comment about us being able to eat everything a cow does. good luck eating that silage, hay, fresh grass and such. i'm sure that is exactly what your digestive system was designed to take.

needles

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
it makes me chuckle somewhat that water, or rather the lack of it is what is making people think we will faze out meat. like crops of plants don't need water, or enrichment nurients, or air miles to provide a richer nutition/palet scource, or cold storage like meat.

the fact that education is going to cost a small fortune, and that you can not force people to give something up. the veggies will have to be come so cheap and the meat so expencive to make people change. good luck with that.

that is a few decades away still so who knows what the world will be like.. If anyone will still be able to afford meat (with the land, water, feed, etc that critters need), it will be the developed countries that have more even climates & where farms are subsidized by taxpayers (as in the US), etc.. the poor developing nations likely will not fare all that well..

I expect that factory farms might become even worse in an attempt to cut costs while trying to produce more meat.. and too, more importation of food from poorer countries to the developed countries.. right now, blueberries in CA often come from Chile, etc and are half the price in the grocery store as CA grown blueberries..

One thing i have noticed tho is more and more food tastes like crap.. even watermelon.. it looks like watermelon.. it cuts like watermelon.. but it tastes like crap!.. which is one reason for me to grow my own.. buy heirloom seeds and grow food that tastes like it should taste with more nutrients in it than what is sold in grocery stores today..

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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Ephiphiny, rather than denigrating other posters' education, why not post a set of links or offer up some educationm.

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ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
i agree totally with you in that growing doesn't take personal acreage. but to feed the world en mass it does take the acreage. it would also have to be cheaper than it is now too. again, not sure how it is over there, but veggies here are expencive, and the average poor family could not exist alone on fresh veg.

I posted this article on the other thread.. according to some, that is exactly what will happen (due to water shortage).. but if veggies over there are expensive, then the meat must be even more expensive..

the original article- http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2012/aug/26/food-shortages-world-vegetarianism
"Scientists Predict The World's Population Will Become Vegetarian By 2050
A group of leading water scientists from around the world believe the world's population will have to completely switch to a vegetarian diet in 2050 because of food shortages, according to the Guardian.
As of now, most people eat 20 per cent of their protein from animal-based products and foods. However, scientists warn by 2050, this consumption number might have to drop down to five per cent to feed an extra two billion people expected to be alive, according to the research."
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/08/27/vegetarian-diet-scientist_n_1834182.html

thanks for the links, i shall have a look tomorrow. meat here is relatively cheap unless it's outdoor and organically reared.

it makes me chuckle somewhat that water, or rather the lack of it is what is making people think we will faze out meat. like crops of plants don't need water, or enrichment nurients, or air miles to provide a richer nutition/palet scource, or cold storage like meat.

the fact that education is going to cost a small fortune, and that you can not force people to give something up. the veggies will have to be come so cheap and the meat so expencive to make people change. good luck with that.

oh, and for the one who made the comment about us being able to eat everything a cow does. good luck eating that silage, hay, fresh grass and such. i'm sure that is exactly what your digestive system was designed to take.

needles

Once again, someone's education is deficient to contribute to this discussion. Global water issues have the govt. technocrats and scientists who actually understand the greater picture and attempt planning in cold sweats. As well as any aware long term military planner. It isn't floods in wet season, it's suitable quality and quantity at the right time that grows adequate food for populations. Drinking water alone is a huge problem at present population densities. Every modern flood is more than balanced by new droughts elsewhere. Ask any farmer west of the Great Plains this year? Too much water does no good, too little is as devastating. Russia will grow more grain with global warming, The US and other more temperate zones a lot less, Net loss for humanity.
I knew the current cattle feed lot diet would be brought up, this is a childish argument, no offense. Every farmer chooses the seed for each plot on current demands. Feed corn and silage are the best market where ethanol corn isn't productive. Human diet crops happen the minute the market price swings that way. Feed corn, and other grains and silage destined for cows and hogs amount to well over 10 times the tonnage of slaughter house output and considerable extra energy costs moving things around above what growing direct food crops would. We aren't even touching the long term hidden costs in soil fertility and water quality modern industrial agriculture based on chemical soil augmentation and insect control results in, all aggravated by the 10 times multiple of growing food to grow meat.

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

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ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
i agree totally with you in that growing doesn't take personal acreage. but to feed the world en mass it does take the acreage. it would also have to be cheaper than it is now too. again, not sure how it is over there, but veggies here are expencive, and the average poor family could not exist alone on fresh veg.

I posted this article on the other thread.. according to some, that is exactly what will happen (due to water shortage).. but if veggies over there are expensive, then the meat must be even more expensive..

the original article- http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2012/aug/26/food-shortages-world-vegetarianism
"Scientists Predict The World's Population Will Become Vegetarian By 2050
A group of leading water scientists from around the world believe the world's population will have to completely switch to a vegetarian diet in 2050 because of food shortages, according to the Guardian.
As of now, most people eat 20 per cent of their protein from animal-based products and foods. However, scientists warn by 2050, this consumption number might have to drop down to five per cent to feed an extra two billion people expected to be alive, according to the research."
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/08/27/vegetarian-diet-scientist_n_1834182.html

thanks for the links, i shall have a look tomorrow. meat here is relatively cheap unless it's outdoor and organically reared.

it makes me chuckle somewhat that water, or rather the lack of it is what is making people think we will faze out meat. like crops of plants don't need water, or enrichment nurients, or air miles to provide a richer nutition/palet scource, or cold storage like meat.

the fact that education is going to cost a small fortune, and that you can not force people to give something up. the veggies will have to be come so cheap and the meat so expencive to make people change. good luck with that.

oh, and for the one who made the comment about us being able to eat everything a cow does. good luck eating that silage, hay, fresh grass and such. i'm sure that is exactly what your digestive system was designed to take.

needles

Once again, someone's education is deficient to contribute to this discussion. Global water issues have the govt. technocrats and scientists who actually understand the greater picture and attempt planning in cold sweats. As well as any aware long term military planner. It isn't floods in wet season, it's suitable quality and quantity at the right time that grows adequate food for populations. Drinking water alone is a huge problem at present population densities. Every modern flood is more than balanced by new droughts elsewhere. Ask any farmer west of the Great Plains this year? Too much water does no good, too little is as devastating. Russia will grow more grain with global warming, The US and other more temperate zones a lot less, Net loss for humanity.
I knew the current cattle feed lot diet would be brought up, this is a childish argument, no offense. Every farmer chooses the seed for each plot on current demands. Feed corn and silage are the best market where ethanol corn isn't productive. Human diet crops happen the minute the market price swings that way. Feed corn, and other grains and silage destined for cows and hogs amount to well over 10 times the tonnage of slaughter house output and considerable extra energy costs moving things around above what growing direct food crops would. We aren't even touching the long term hidden costs in soil fertility and water quality modern industrial agriculture based on chemical soil augmentation and insect control results in, all aggravated by the 10 times multiple of growing food to grow meat.

you seem to be under the delusion that it doesn't take all the same stuff to grow veggies as it does to grow stuff for cattle or any other animal. in fact it takes much more. you also have to think of soil types, thus what can actually be grown on it, and its yield. my arguments are very valid thank you very much. my education is also just fine. also having studied it all for alot of years, and indepth i also know not to believe every ounce of bullshit coming from so called government research. they tell you what they want you to believe.

the climate is changing slowly yes, but as one place changes, so does another. at present britain is just fine with its water.

needles

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There is No professional support for your statements and conclusions.

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
we already import from countries that don't follow the same strict guildlines we have to use.

i do think though that we stand a damn good chance of nearly wiping ourselves out before we get anywhere near having to go veggie though.

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
we already import from countries that don't follow the same strict guildlines we have to use.

i do think though that we stand a damn good chance of nearly wiping ourselves out before we get anywhere near having to go veggie though.

thats another thing, aint it? The US bans certain chemicals, pesticides, etc for use in the US, yet the US chem manufacturers continue to produce that poision but export it to other countries that havent banned their shite.. to be used on food those countries then export back to the US & other countries.. duh!


(...TJ toddles off to google heirloom seeds and find out what she can grow over the fall/winter & next spring..)

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ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

needlesandpins bringing in chemical residues and contaminanats touches on a key reason many are vegetarian. Formal govt. standards even in the strictest countries horrify endocrinologists. The continuing trade war between the US and EU on tetracycline and estrogen beef feed additives in US beef have yet to be resolved, EU beef is cleanER, not Clean. Every step up the food chain one eats, the general rule is chemical concentrations go up by 10 times. Why Tuna has so many heavy metal issues, it's 3 to 5 steps above the plant and protozoan primary producers in the seas. Doxins and all the other modern chemical horrors are now found all over the most remote of ecosystems, such as the Arctic and Antarctic deep ocean floor.

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
i agree totally with you in that growing doesn't take personal acreage. but to feed the world en mass it does take the acreage. it would also have to be cheaper than it is now too. again, not sure how it is over there, but veggies here are expencive, and the average poor family could not exist alone on fresh veg.

I posted this article on the other thread.. according to some, that is exactly what will happen (due to water shortage).. but if veggies over there are expensive, then the meat must be even more expensive..

the original article- http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2012/aug/26/food-shortages-world-vegetarianism
"Scientists Predict The World's Population Will Become Vegetarian By 2050
A group of leading water scientists from around the world believe the world's population will have to completely switch to a vegetarian diet in 2050 because of food shortages, according to the Guardian.
As of now, most people eat 20 per cent of their protein from animal-based products and foods. However, scientists warn by 2050, this consumption number might have to drop down to five per cent to feed an extra two billion people expected to be alive, according to the research."
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/08/27/vegetarian-diet-scientist_n_1834182.html