RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassignment surgery for convicted murderer

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RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/7/2012 8:19:08 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

With the exception of this thread, I've found these boards to be preponderantly trans friendly. Some of the posters in this thread who are against the state paying for the surgery are actually trans friendly - I believe they are coming from a "no coddling of prisoners" perspective.

I frame this as an 8th Amendment issue now. I had a different opinion of the case when I read the story in post two, which evolved as I read more coverage and especially the summary of the judge's decision, downloadable from http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/09/04/judge-orders-sex-change-operation-for-federal-prisoner/

Yes. This has been my observation too. Most people here are trans friendly - a minority are not.

This thread is complicated by the conflation of 3 separate issues:
- the rather unsavoury person at the core ;
- the manner in which prison time ought to be served; and
- the needs of some trans people for SRS, its effectiveness and so on.
The debates around healthcare provision in the USA adds another layer of complexity.

My feeling is that dealing with these issues as separate issues, rather than lumping them all together around this particular individual would be far more productive.

As someone who has a professional interest in this area, might I caution people against accepting the medical model and literature unquestioningly. My experience is that there is a world of difference between the literature and the lived experiences of trans people. In many respects the medical literature is fictional, a kind of play where both sides - trans people and their medical service providers/ 'gatekeepers' - have interests and these interests are played out through strict adherence to a formulaic script.

If any one seeks a more interesting way of looking at transgender issues, Kate Bornstein's Gender Outlaw is an excellent starting point IMHO.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/7/2012 8:49:18 PM >

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Post #: 181

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/7/2012 8:34:23 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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It is simple...when in Sweden do as the Swedish do...when in the US do as Americans do. This has nothing, in my opinion, to do with transgender and all to do with the forfeiture of rights due to crime and incarceration.

Yes I believe in punishment and if that makes me vindictive then so be it. This is elective, cosmetic, unnecessary, undeserved, surgery. HE does not need this to function...HE does not need to be a woman to make license plates…or to do the dishes…or the laundry. HE should just be glad the days of chain gangs are over.

He will be much happier as a woman in a mans body taking it in the ass then as a woman with other women.

Yes I am coarse…Neanderthal…backward…vindictive…unforgiving…uncaring…and I bet my feelings pretty well match the majority of Americans
Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/7/2012 8:38:56 PM >

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Post #: 182

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/7/2012 9:24:33 PM

FatDomDaddy

Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
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Except... in the United States there is Equal Protection under the Law.

So at some point he is either legally a man or legally a woman regardless of what surgery he has or does not have.

And it doesn't matter say if he is made Legally a woman and thus, must be moved to a woman's prison because THERE will be a class action suit filed by several women inmates in whatever facility he is moved to that states housing a man in their population is cruel and unusual.

Like I said, the hoax caused by this bozo will cost the taxpayers' millions!!!

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 183

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 3:59:20 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

With all due respect, I don't think it's a hoax. Ten years is a long time to run a con.

Even if it was with this particular individual, what do we do with the next person? What really is the standard of care?

All joking aside, these last couple of days in doing My research, I've literally come up with My own "I have a pussy" position. Do you know that's not necessarily enough to be put in a woman's facility? No shit. Go look at that reference I linked. Even having female genitalia isn't always enough.

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Post #: 184

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 4:07:29 AM

pixie1234

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/9/2012
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Cisgender prejudice is real, and as nasty as any other form of bigotry from the deep past. Most of what people think about transpeople is wrong, and it's because of silly ideas in their head.

This person is female. I have no questions about that. I do not need to question that. Anyone who does is a fool, and biased.
This person is immoral. This person killed someone. It doesn't matter why. Their issues could have been resolved in a thousand times
of a better way. Divorce would have done it.
This person deserves to be punished. If denying them their rightful form is part of that punishment, so it be. They ended another's existence, wrongfully. Divorce and transition was the appropriate choice.
The death penalty might have been better for this person. Both severing the link between a spirit in the wrong form, and serving rightful punishment and setting an example.
I have known MANY good trans in my life , and a few who grow so damaged by the hatred we experience, or simply personal moral
weakness, that they turn to evil. I have no patience with evil.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 185

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 6:48:56 AM

FatDomDaddy

Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
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You must put the crime aside.

If this person IS a female, than housing this person in a Male Penitentiary is cruel and unusual punishment.

(in reply to pixie1234)

Post #: 186

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 6:51:08 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

With all due respect, I don't think it's a hoax. Ten years is a long time to run a con.

Even if it was with this particular individual, what do we do with the next person? What really is the standard of care?

All joking aside, these last couple of days in doing My research, I've literally come up with My own "I have a pussy" position. Do you know that's not necessarily enough to be put in a woman's facility? No shit. Go look at that reference I linked. Even having female genitalia isn't always enough.

Quit fuckin around then LP, lets get a look at the evidence, flip that monster out....

_____________________________

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(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 187

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 9:04:41 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Like I said, the hoax caused by this bozo will cost the taxpayers' millions!!!

This whole discussion is creepy and reminds me of the murderer sewing woman’s skin together in Silence of the Lambs

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 188

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 10:59:27 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

The amount of hate I've seen in the lesbian community for transfolk is *tremendous*. M

Hate is a strong word... but posers of any stripe tend to be strongly disliked and mocked.

I used to belong to a lesbian forum much like this one. Every year there would be a thread about the Michigan Womyns Festival and their policy on not allowing transgenders to attend. The hate on that board made the p&r forum here look like a sunday school class.

Surely then boi that must be accurate... I mean the idea that men would pose as womyn on a lesbian internet forum is hard to even fathom! ;-)
While I am sure there were a few men on the site, most of the members knew someone else there and were women. They were discussing the rules that other women had put in place to keep transgendered females from attending. And they were being very hateful about it. There was also a group that was constantly pressuring the forum managers to stop transgendered females from posting there. Of course they also wanted the transgendered males kicked off because now they id'd as men. I guess to them your not really female unless you are born without a dick, but if you are born female and want to be a male then we will take you at your word.

And yes, I imagine in Lesbian circles there is a lot of animosity toward men pretending they are actually women and trying to pass themselves off again as lesbians.
You really don't know that much about the whole subject, do you?

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

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Post #: 189

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 11:09:33 AM

pixie1234

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/9/2012
Status: offline

It is not. I have no patience for trans who cannot control the pain we feel inside from not being in our right forms.
I have seen messed up trans - I have tried to help them, tried to redeem them and wasted my time talking to drug addicted fools.
I have also helped a number of people find their real selves and avoid suicide/negative outcomes.
Punishment is punishment. Being denied your rightful self is a suitable punishment for endiing another's existence. I do not doubt
this person is female. I simply am angered by evil, and those who inflict pain, harm and hurt.

My life has gone in the opposite direction. My karma is lighter, rather than darker.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 190

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 11:09:45 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

Well if there is, surely then a Caucasian could become a Negro or vice versa right?

Yes, as a matter of fact, he can....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Like_Me

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

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Post #: 191

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 11:13:14 AM

pixie1234

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/9/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Like I said, the hoax caused by this bozo will cost the taxpayers' millions!!!

This whole discussion is creepy and reminds me of the murderer sewing woman’s skin together in Silence of the Lambs

Butch

http://www.gender.org/remember/#

In my life , I have lost many good friends to suicide. Other die continually to gender related violence. This comment is a clear example of how cisgender prejudice claims transgender lives continually. "Silence" is a fiction, and transpeople have been used as "gender" villians for far too long, when the real scary hearts are red blooded heterosexual men with screwed up desires.

Corrupted trans are a pitty. They frighten me too. But, they are rare. I KNOW the majority of my community. We are never spoken about, but we are certainly not like this.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 192

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 11:14:54 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixie1234

Cisgender prejudice is real, and as nasty as any other form of bigotry from the deep past. Most of what people think about transpeople is wrong, and it's because of silly ideas in their head.

This person is female. I have no questions about that. I do not need to question that. Anyone who does is a fool, and biased.
This person is immoral. This person killed someone. It doesn't matter why. Their issues could have been resolved in a thousand times
of a better way. Divorce would have done it.
This person deserves to be punished. If denying them their rightful form is part of that punishment, so it be. They ended another's existence, wrongfully. Divorce and transition was the appropriate choice.
The death penalty might have been better for this person. Both severing the link between a spirit in the wrong form, and serving rightful punishment and setting an example.
I have known MANY good trans in my life , and a few who grow so damaged by the hatred we experience, or simply personal moral
weakness, that they turn to evil. I have no patience with evil.

And that has what to do with my post?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to pixie1234)

Post #: 193

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 11:27:40 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Quit fuckin around then LP, lets get a look at the evidence, flip that monster out....

Computer twit that I am, Ron, I've got a beaver shot. I'm just too dumb to know how to post it.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 194

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 12:43:46 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I think or hope you missed my point. I was not associating trans people with psychotic murders who sew skin. But just the creepy feeling talking about a sadistic murderer of women that wants to be a woman. ..and wants you and I to pay for it.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to pixie1234)

Post #: 195

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 12:47:04 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixie1234

Corrupted trans are a pitty. They frighten me too. But, they are rare.

My question is this.

Why are you supporting this one?
why are you supporting this person who takes all your hard work and sacrifice and throws it into the dumpster?

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Post #: 196

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 3:28:42 PM

FatDomDaddy

Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Well if there is, surely then a Caucasian could become a Negro or vice versa right?

Yes, as a matter of fact, he can....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Like_Me

from your own link

"To complete the illusion"...

And John Howard Griffin PRETENDED to be black... just like Robert Kosilek is PRETENDING to be a woman.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 197

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 3:46:42 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

So, you are saying that you don't believe in GID at all, FDD? Or that this particulae woman is 'faking it' for some obscure reason?

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Post #: 198

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 4:06:26 PM

FatDomDaddy

Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline

Robert Kosilek is faking it for very good reasons... special attention and celebrity are at the top of the list.

As for GID...

It is a mental health disorder.

You do not become a woman by removing a penis and getting breast implants any more than you become a man by grafting on a penis and chopping off breasts.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 199

RE: Federal judge rules state must provide sex reassign... - 9/8/2012 4:13:54 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Someone will castrate themselves in the name of celebrity? Okey dokey.

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Post #: 200

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