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RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 1:40:06 PM   
xssve


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Yeah, shooting somebody's hard limit for me too, lol.

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RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 4:14:19 PM   
BambiBoi


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(I just want you all to know I'm here, reading every word and thinking, but struggling to make time for a proper response. It's coming though.)

But I do want to quickly address Athena: Yes, I was intending this to be about longer D/s relationships, and less about isolated scenes. If I was playing with someone once, with zero intention of seeing them again, I wouldn't care if they thought I was too soft.

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RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/11/2012 1:13:46 PM   
DesFIP


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Tops are allowed limits too. That's not a subject that comes up much, instead people tend to spout guff about all real tops are edge players born with a flogger in their hands. Which just isn't true.

He does not feel guilty telling me no. Whether I've had the week from hell and am asking to be spanked to tears which he deems inappropriate and sends me to bed instead or me asking for something I've read about and him not knowing enough. Which was his response to my request for breath play. He deemed in unsafe and said no. He then looked into it over the next six months and found parameters which feel safe and will now play inside those limits but no farther.

I guess the difference here is that he isn't just topping me, he knows me deep down. And he knows that if we don't do it today, we may in six months or six years. We're here for the long haul. And that makes a difference.

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RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/11/2012 1:16:38 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Personally, I'd a hell of a lot rather cause pain that's a 2 on a ten scale when a sub wanted an 8 than cause a 9 when they wanted an 8.

I err on the side of caution.

Meh, call me a wimp if you want but I reserve the right to twist your head off and use it for a doorstop afterwards.

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RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/11/2012 10:54:42 PM   
tsatske


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I've had very few scenes go bad, but it doesn't happen. One scene was with a Master I was fairly new to, we'd only played a few times. But I thought he understood my issues with safewords, we'd certainly talked about the fact that I have to trust my top, because when I sub out, my mind set is that I don't want to safe word - I need to take just a little more - for him - ect. I LOVE this mindset and playing in it, but it means I can't be trusted to safeword. The way I usually describe it is - I can get myself to safeword if I convince myself that I know something that my Top doesn't know. An impending anxiety attack would certainly count - if I don't safe word and tell him about it, how will he know? So, after having those types of discussions with this master - he bought a new toy. He had never used it before. He was watching one place that he thought was the center of the impact, when another body part was actually taking the impact. When I actually thought I felt blood (it was my imagination, although I did devolop a double fist sized, dark black bruise directly over my kidney, which was certainly not what we were aiming at. He thought he was hitting me in the center of my buttocks, where no mark at all was being made ) when I finally safeworded, he chose to ignore my safeword. That is a scene that went bad.

Much more often I am literally begging for more. But I understand that there are multiple things to take into consideration, and while I may feel disappointed if I don't get enough pain to sub out - which I seldom do, from pain, I just love pain too much - I am not upset with the Master. He is the one responsible for making the best descion considering all factors, including what you said, what you feel comfortable with.

A very dear former Master of mine, and the most Sadistic man I have ever been owned by or played with - when we played at the club we belonged to, or at parties, or even just with another playmate or couple, severly ramped down how hard he played me. I understood. If he wanted to play with others - and we both wanted that - he could not have them seeing the way he normally beat me. He would have scared the shit out of 75% of them. This was not false advertising, as when he got a chance to play with others, he did so within their limits and capabilities. It was just an attempt not to drive away buisness, iykwim.

Oh, Des - a wonderful breath play toy, though hard to get a hold of, is an oxygen face mask. The kind that has a soft rubber seal and sourronds the mouth and nose and gets hooked up to an o2 hose. the soft seal does not bruise the face or put face muscles under undo stress, but it totally seals off oxygen. The only air is coming from the hole for the tube, right in the center front. It is much smaller hole than palm size and easy to cover. You can literally get no air tilll he releases or you tap out. what fun!

< Message edited by tsatske -- 9/11/2012 10:58:31 PM >


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RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/13/2012 10:32:32 AM   
DNAHelicase


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

There have been scenes where I, as a top, I did not feel comfortable continuing. I err on the side of caution and follow my gut. Deep down, I knew the sub could handle a smaller cage, or harder strikes, or less air, or a bigger toy. I stopped because I was not comfortable administering "more" despite cries begging for it.

Afterwards I felt inadequate, like I've spoiled their magic and could not please them in the way they want.I'm not terribly interested in "dominance is all about what you want, so tough cookies for subs" answers. I care deeply about my submisive's enjoyment during play (see profile about how Lil Bamboo is now a service top).

For tops and dominants: Do you ever feel guilty about putting a cap on sub frenzy? Do you ever indulge a little more than you'd like to to facilitate sub frenzy?

For bottoms and submissives: Do you ever feel disappointed when you wanted more but the other side had to be "the responsible" one? If you were disappointed, did it have a lasting effect? Have you ever considered "this person is not extreme enough for me, I should leave?"

We all trade off some safety for enjoyment. We all measure the balance differently. Some think the rush of blindfolded exhibitionist promiscuity is a fantastic Wednesday night. Others think "that's a great way to get syphilis and get arrested." For those willing to throw more caution to the wind, what do you think of soft little teddy bears like me?


I'm a sadomasochistic dominant, so my perspective might be a bit different from some of the others. (I read some but not all of the replies.) I like to play hard though I don't consider myself extreme.

As a dominant/top, I can't recall ever feeling guilty, per se. When I started topping, I sometimes wondered if I was any good, but I pretty quickly got over that and learned to enjoy myself. I don't approach it from a service top perspective, though, so I imagine that my experience and your experience might be different, since we presumably have different goals (pleasing others versus pleasing one's own sadistic desires). That said, as deep as my sadism runs I DO try to make sure my subs or bottoms enjoy (most of) what I do. I don't like scening with people who stand there with gritted teeth, counting down the minutes until it's over. As many of the other posters I did read pointed out, the top has to be the responsible one. I don't feel bad if I cut a scene short or don't take somebody as far as he or she wants to go because it makes ME uncomfortable. I'm in charge of the scene which means I'm in charge of the decisions and everybody's safety including my own.

As a bottom, I scene once every few months, but when I get that urge I want a seriously heavy beating over large parts of my body and often some edgy things that have great capacity to go wrong, such as non-choking breath play. I'm extremely picky about the people who are allowed to top me. I know I like to go far as a bottom, so I have to trust that the top will not go further than my body can handle. There have certainly been times that I would have liked to be beaten harder. I like to feel like my bones are going to break. I like to feel like an anvil is landing on my back or thighs or abdomen when I'm being flogged or paddled or caned. I like for my body to start thrashing involuntarily and that little fish-out-of-water part of my brain to start screaming in alarm because I haven't been able to breathe for so long. I like to be strung up with ropes and chains and bars and twine in ways that make parts of my body turn purple and leave deep bruises in my flesh where the restraints dug against me. If things went as far as I want them to, there would certainly be a capacity for serious damage. So if the tops who know me and know themselves don't push me as hard as I like, I trust they have good reason not to go there and I honestly don't feel disappointed after the fact. Even during the scene, I'm usually getting such rough treatment that my brain is pretty addled trying to keep up with the sensations, and it's difficult for me to even verbalize a safeword when needed, much less anything as coherent as asking for (or even thinking that I want) more of a particular treatment.

However, I have certainly scened with people who were not extreme enough for me. And I did leave them behind pretty quickly. That was mostly when I was a rather stupid and indiscriminate newbie who didn't know what she wanted or liked yet, though. Now if I approach somebody at all, I have a pretty good idea of what that person is like when scening either through many direct observations or a lot of talking with that person and people who know him or her very well. Again, if somebody decides that you, BambiBoi, are not extreme enough for him or her, it's ok. You're just not well suited but don't take it personally. Some people just don't work well together as tops and bottoms, just as with all other aspects of human relationships. That doesn't mean that you won't be the perfect top for somebody else.

I think, based on my experiences when I was a fledgling top, if you ask the people you scene with what they thought about a scene in which you didn't take them as far as you could have, you'll probably find that almost all of them found the scene fulfilling. I doubt most of them will even remember asking for more of a particular something during the scene, unless it was something that is a major like to that person or s/he asked repeatedly for it. And if that's the case--somebody repeatedly wants a particular kink fulfilled to a degree you don't comfortable with--you're probably not the best suited partners in the world, and that's ok. If you have fun doing other things then great, but if you don't that's ok, too. You both move on and find people who are better suited if that something is a sticking point for either one of you.

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RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/14/2012 10:18:27 AM   
BambiBoi


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Everyone's responses have been very helpful to me. While I had no doubt following my best judgment was the way to go, it's comforting to know others have been there before, seen what I've seen, and have taken the path I've independently elected.

Athena, I think you cut me right to the core. When I top, I am not doing it my my love of the game. I do it because the bottom loves the sensations. Topping for me is a lot of work. But its a labor of love and I do it well. I feel every strike reflects on my character. The "pressure to perform" as you so aptly put it is doubled if the bottom knows I'm normally submissive. I feel like I need to overcome that they are "just bottoming" and instead make them feel like they are serving. Most of the people I've ever topped are submissives, and the challenge is fulfilling their need to submit, not to receive actions. I hadn't thought about it like this before and it really helps make peace between my brain (which says this is a safe level to stop on") and my mind (which says "the sub wants more, give it more..."). Thank you.

DNAHelicase, thank you for sharing that lovely piece. The way you describe the sort of play you want to receive is visceral. I felt beaten just reading it. You, as a bottom, are the kind of player I was concerned with when I wrote this post. Many of the responses here (too numerous to name individually, but you know who you are), put the brakes in the hands of the top. I agree that's where it should be. The bottom line up front is that I have to find partners who mirror my level of comfort.

Tsatske, the way you talk about your former Master brought an interesting emotional response in me. I know its unhealthy and Napoleonic, but I felt weak, small, or inept because I know I would never strike you as hard or as ruthlessly as he. I'm not obsessed about this point. And I know I have many redeeming characteristics that make me appealing to others. But I feel a great weakness in my BDSM profile is an inability for massive pain output. I think all the porn and smut have gone to my head, because I KNOW its not needed, but I THINK it is.

DesFIP and Hill, I admire the way you and yours do things. I feel much more comfortable designing parameters to stay within. Despite using the terms top and bottom, I also think of relationships as long term events. I would never push limits with someone new. In part for safety, in part for liability. Despite feeling challenged or "called out" by my own mind for knowing others do it better/faster/harder/deeper I have the discretion to know what is right for me.

Fucktoyprincess, you and a few others have pointed out how important it is to find someone paired to your level of play. That is what makes me feel inadequate. It's not that I feel like I need to be able to hospitalize someone just so I know I can give a flogging. But I feel like I've failed someone if they safely wanted more than I could/did give.

Kana, I think that I should work on being more like you, when I top. I admire your style of dominance. There are plenty of sensations I enjoy when topping, and I should indulge more in those. I'm familiar with the Catch 22 for service tops. I want to please the bottom, the bottom wants to please me. I'm happy when they are happy, they are happy when I an happy. So one of us needs to buck up and start enjoying the scene so we can both have a great time.

Lady Hibiscus, Dark Steven, and Mistress Dark Art: I appreciate your sentiments that the top should be in control and make the decisions. 100/100 I would end a a scene feeling like a green wimpy rookie than leave someone injured.

Littlewonder, you and a few other subs are the motivation for this post. I am intimidated by how much submissives can receive and just want more. I feel like Scotty "giving it all she's got, Captain!"

I feel a little guilty responding to some by name and others not. If I didn't write a specific response, it's probably because I read your post and thoroughly agreed to the point where all I could say is "yes... I feel that way too."





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RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/14/2012 10:38:57 AM   
littlewonder


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I think you just need to let go. Live in the moment.

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