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RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:00:22 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		Raiikum

I have seen MEN on this board called you so many names! But you never tell them (stop harassing me)!!!!!

But yet you say I am attacking you? They curse at you but some of my post have been pull because I have
asked you questioning about your thoughts on T. Martin Case! Someone just told you to be and I quoted "fucking honest"
But I am attacking you are you serious????

Now you still say Zimmerman was not wrong in following Martin and he was heard saying "they always get away "!

What is your answering to this questions Raiikun?

Again I am not attacking you just asking a question about your thoughts and feeling about how so much
you feel Zimmerman did not do a thing wrong!


That funny thing that happen in Florida has happen in Texas, a woman came up to another woman's car and threaten her, she also shoot and killed the
other woman!

Two different types of cases not even the same area or topical as The Zimmerman/Martin case oh and it is funny to you!!!!!

Following and by foot and waiting for the person is different, but it is funny, it is totally not real!

One question I am not sure if you have been asked this what would you had done if Zimmerman were following you?

But there are many things I wanted to ask you, one is I wonder if you older or younger boy or man, it does go with the mind set
you have! I am never use the acb of terminology of the computer world I have always spelled words out so what does BTW mean? I hope you do not mind
telling me ?

It takes time to really understand someone like Zimmerman, there are so many like him and so many who wish they could be him, do you believe this
statement Raiikun?

I do wonder if he feels anything, sorrow or joy for killing this boy! What are your thoughts on this?

Remember this is not an attack it is and does go along with the questions and answers about the Zimmerman/Martin case!!!

Mons

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 761
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:02:54 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And some could also claim it shows his racial motivation, especially in light of the theft he, himself, experienced.


So you, tazzygirl, think that Zimmerman would not have been in fear of grievous harm and of his life, and gone for his gun, if it had been - say - Chuck Norris attacking and mauling him and telling him that he was going to die?




What would have been Chuck Norris' motivation in attacking George Zimmerman unprovoked?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 762
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:05:13 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

What would have been Chuck Norris' motivation in attacking George Zimmerman unprovoked?



What is anyone's? Yet it happens a lot.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 763
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:10:46 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

And given that Zimmerman received Neighborhood Watch training, he would have been EXPLICITLY INSTRUCTED never to follow anyone.



Funny thing that. There's no evidence that this is the case. The Sanford Neighborhood Watch Handbook does not explicitly instruct never to follow anyone, and Wendy Dorival when questioned about it, "following" was wrapped up in a 3 part question with "confronting" and "carrying firearms". She said "no" that it wasn't their policy, but earlier had stated explicitly that they don't forbid neighborhood watch from carrying firearms, and when she elaborated, it was on "confronting". She doesn't bring up following again.

She didn't say whether she brought up following in her presentation. She didn't say if any resident of The Retreat at Twin Lakes asked a question about it. She didn't say whether she explicitly discouraged following. She didn't say if she told the people that observing was not to include changing positions to keep a suspect in sight. She didn't cite any NHW program materials on the subject. There's nothing in the NHW materials that give an explicit direction to never follow.


Unless Zimmerman's "Neighborhood Watch" is really just cover for his vigilante activities, they should be tracable back to the national organizations. Which all tie back to the federal guidelines.

https://www.bja.gov/Publications/NSA_NW_Manual.pdf

"Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement.
It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess
police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue
vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or
deputies when encountering strange activity. Members
should never confront suspicious persons who could be
armed and dangerous."

30 years of experience in REAL neighborhood watch programs gives me this little insight.

So what is it? REAL Neighborhood Watch, or Vigilante fake-Neighborhood Watch?

Without oversight, they're vigilantes.

And notice something else about the manual, there's that section on preparing a map. If Zimmerman's "Neighborhood Watch" was legitimate, then he should have already known all of the street names and important landmarks.

Which, of course, provides plenty of Reasonable Doubt as to Zimmerman's claims.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 764
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:14:56 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

What would have been Chuck Norris' motivation in attacking George Zimmerman unprovoked?



What is anyone's? Yet it happens a lot.


No it doesn't. Even if someone's motivation is fucked up, there's always some motivation. Maybe someone is fucked up on drugs? Maybe someone is angry about having his bike stolen? But people do not just go around murdering people randomly.

So any discussion of people doing things, needs to include WHY they did those things.

e.g.: George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin. Now he needs to explain WHY he did that to the Judge and Jury who will decide whether his motivation was lawful.

And isn't relying on Zimmerman's motivation while discounting everyone elses' hypocritical. I mean, we all expect that from Zimmerman's cheerleaders, and they're never going to stop, since logic isn't important to them, but it should be pointed out.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/7/2012 3:16:08 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 765
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:19:12 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

No it doesn't. Even if someone's motivation is fucked up, there's always some motivation.



I didn't say there wasn't. "It happens a lot" is in regards to people choosing to attack others unprovoked. Like the kid earlier in the thread choosing to attack an elderly bus driver as he got off the bus. What was his motivation?

We can only speculate; and not knowing his motivation does not change the fact that he did attack the bus driver.

Likewise, we are not needed to know the motivation of Trayvon for breaking George's nose, and pinning him to the ground so that he couldn't escape; it's not legally relevant to George's defense. All that would matter is if the State can prove George is the aggressor; and so far, there's nothing in the evidence that shows the State would be able to do so.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 766
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:20:22 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
So now you admit that there is evidence against Zimmerman or is O'Mara reading the comics behind the documents?


Given that his client set him up to lie to the court, I wouldn't be surprised if O'Mara's priority isn't finding out what happens to Batman in the next issue of Detective Comics.

Yeah, he'll get a defense, and it's going to be exactly as much defense as needed for O'Mara to not be called out for not providing an effective defense.

Wanna bet after trial that Zimmerman turns around and blames O'Mara anyway for the conviction?

Total lack of personal responsibility. Zimmerman's one of those people where "It's always someone else's fault." ( That's why he's always been unable to keep a job, much less get a real career. )

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 767
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:22:48 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

No it doesn't. Even if someone's motivation is fucked up, there's always some motivation.



I didn't say there wasn't. "It happens a lot" is in regards to people choosing to attack others unprovoked. Like the kid earlier in the thread choosing to attack an elderly bus driver as he got off the bus. What was his motivation?

We can only speculate; and not knowing his motivation does not change the fact that he did attack the bus driver.

Likewise, we are not needed to know the motivation of Trayvon for breaking George's nose, and pinning him to the ground so that he couldn't escape; it's not legally relevant to George's defense. All that would matter is if the State can prove George is the aggressor; and so far, there's nothing in the evidence that shows the State would be able to do so.


Well, if Zimmerman provoked the incident, he doesn't have a valid self-defense claim, which of course, is totally relevant.

Why would you suggest otherwise?

And the only thing required to prove George is the aggressor is to discount George's claims -- which, of course, George already did all the hard work by showing his complete lack of credibility.

SO, what evidence is there to provide reasonable doubt that Zimmerman unlawfully tried to detain Trayvon Martin at gunpoint OTHER THAN ZIMMERMAN'S IMPEACHABLE TESTIMONY?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 768
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:35:27 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


And some could also claim it shows his racial motivation, especially in light of the theft he, himself, experienced.



People claim a lot of things that have no basis in fact. Truth is, we have no reason to assume that George wouldn't have acted any different if it was a white guy acting suspicious that night he was calling about.


Ah, now you are getting it. The same assumption you are making about Trayvon.

Even the police agree Zimmerman handled the situation all wrong and could have avoided the whole incident in the capias request.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 769
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:36:56 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And some could also claim it shows his racial motivation, especially in light of the theft he, himself, experienced.


So you, tazzygirl, think that Zimmerman would not have been in fear of grievous harm and of his life, and gone for his gun, if it had been - say - Chuck Norris attacking and mauling him and telling him that he was going to die?



Chuck style? rofl.... There would have been no questioning a broken nose had a martial art expert popped Z's nose.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 770
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:51:26 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Ah, now you are getting it. The same assumption you are making about Trayvon.



Not really. I'm just arguing from the side that has the benefit of not having the burden of proof.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 771
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 3:56:03 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


Well, if Zimmerman provoked the incident, he doesn't have a valid self-defense claim, which of course, is totally relevant.



Actually he still does. Even the aggressor is allowed a self defense claim under the scenario George and the evidence describes.


quote:


And the only thing required to prove George is the aggressor is to discount George's claims -- which, of course, George already did all the hard work by showing his complete lack of credibility.


No. To prove George is the aggressor under Florida law, they have to show proof of an act or threat of physical force George exerted upon Trayvon contemporaneous with the beginning of the fight.

None so far exists.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 10/7/2012 4:02:34 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 772
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 4:02:38 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Ah, now you are getting it. The same assumption you are making about Trayvon.



Not really. I'm just arguing from the side that has the benefit of not having the burden of proof.


Personally, I agree with the police. Manslaughter. He could have avoided the whole thing.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 773
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 4:04:03 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Personally, I agree with the police. Manslaughter. He could have avoided the whole thing.



There was no legal obligation to avoid the whole thing. And the Police acknowledged after the reason for that capias was so the investigation would continue by the State; Serino didn't feel the evidence was sufficient for manslaughter.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 774
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 4:06:44 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Personally I agree with Serino; George says the decadent was the primary aggressor and all the evidence adds up to what he says.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 775
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 4:07:39 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		Raiikun

The more I look at how much time you have taken to u=understand the balistics and the manner of '
wound that was made to his/Martin body is astonishing, this takes time and motivation!

You remember me of a criminologists is this your field of hobby I am a collector of miniature pieces, your
very good at this and it does take hours of work to look and see if things are correct!

Where did you learn and is it public record of the size and shape of the wound on Martin body, did they
hacve a picture of it to be seen?

You seem to have so much more information then the average person should have, is this true do you think, Raiikun?

I have read many but I do not make it a habit to read more then I need, most of the information of the Zimmerman/ Martin case I have
gotten only from here!

Your fact finding is very well put together, but it has holes in it! So many that I am shocked at the events that lead up to Zmimmerman Killing this boy!

Many wil say it was not a boy but he was and still is he did not have a chance to grow or to have a say in how his life would be!

Do you think this is a fair statement Raiikun?

I relay on the own son at the age of 17 he was as immature as they come, as with Martin ghe certain frighten him, drugs guns anyone following him around!

He as a child was follow home along with my daughter by a white man ( we live in a area and still do where there are only such a small number of people of color this
was a strange thing to happen) now this made him frighten of being follow, until he was older and understood this man was a pervert!

This man/Zimmerman was just a known, nut around town and a wanted to be cop, and a child molester, this alone would make him frightening!

Martin felt danger and did try to get away from this nut but he just kept right on following him,( children do not lie about what an adult did to them never Raiikum)!!!!!

This alone shows Zimmerman is a monster, murdered and guilty, everyone has a opinion and let assume he only killed a boy, but he did more he raped a child as well!!!!!!

No matter whom ever is on his side the facts are here: 1 He killed an unarmed boy!
2 He was told not to follow and or do take any action the police are on they way!
3 He did not listen, he felt the need to be a hero, it did not work!
4 He lied about the amount of money that he and his wife had, this is proven
5 He raped a child, no matter what you or anyone says or disapproved a child does not lie!
6 At the end of it all he is guilty and if he does not serve time here, as a living person he has
answer to an higher power, he shows not one bit of remorse for taking the life of Martin!

He has healed wounds on his head this was told by the doctors' who treated him, he most likely got his assed kick somewhere else, this is why it (the wounds were so healed)


mons

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 776
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 4:14:34 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

There was no legal obligation to avoid the whole thing. And the Police acknowledged after the reason for that capias was so the investigation would continue by the State; Serino didn't feel the evidence was sufficient for manslaughter.


SANFORD — Despite public claims that there wasn't enough probable cause to make a criminal case in the Trayvon Martin killing, early in the investigation the Sanford Police Department requested an arrest warrant from the Seminole County State Attorney's Office, the special prosecutor in the case told the Miami Herald on Tuesday.

A Sanford police incident report shows the case was categorized as "homicide/negligent manslaughter."

The State Attorney's Office held off pending further review, the Herald reported.

The Miami Gardens high school junior was killed Feb. 26 by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer. The 28-year-old insurance underwriter and college student was never charged, triggering a nationwide crusade on the dead teenager's behalf.

Asked to confirm that the police recommended a manslaughter charge, special prosecutor Angela Corey said:

"I don't know about that, but as far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: 'We're through with our investigation and here it is for you.' The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in midstream."

A capias is a request for charges to be filed.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/sanford-cops-sought-warrant-to-arrest-george-zimmerman-in-trayvon-martin/1222259

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 777
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 4:34:39 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		That supports my point, as does this:

"As I have stated consistently, at the time and based on the evidence and testimony we had, we did not have probable cause to make a physical arrest."

His agency recommended the manslaughter charge on paper, the statement said, because without it, prosecutors would not have taken over the investigation.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-07/news/os-george-zimmerman-sanford-police-lied-20120707_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-chief-bill-lee-arrest-warrant

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 778
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 4:47:51 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Arrest Warrants in Florida
“
quote:

An Arrest Warrant is also known as a Capias in Florida.
”
-- Richard Hornsby
An Arrest Warrant, which is also known as a Capias in Florida, is a court order to arrest a person and take them into custody.

An Arrest Warrant can be issued for a variety of reasons, the most common of which are:

Commission of a Felony Crime
Failure to Appear for a Criminal Court Appearance, or
Violation of Probation


http://www.richardhornsby.com/criminal/procedure/arrest-warrants.html

quote:

What is a warrant or capias?
An arrest could be based upon a warrant. But these comprise only a small percentage of arrest situations. A warrant (or capias) is a document issued by the trial court. It is a demand that the police take you into custody immediately wherever they may find you. Since these previously issued court orders were based upon circumstances that you knew were in the works [like violations of probation, failure to show up for a court hearing, etc.], they shouldn't be a total surprise. You might blow a stop sign and get pulled over. The police run your driver's license and a capias appears on the screen. Within a very short time you will be under arrest.


http://www.istilldefendliberty.com/id35.html

Dont make this any more complicated. Its a fancy term for an arrest warrant.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 779
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/7/2012 5:10:37 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		And what's your point? I know what a capias request is, and have not said anything to the contrary.

(Or are you just that unfamiliar with the case that when I said "capias" earlier you couldn't connect was referring to the very known capias request that Serino made?)

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 10/7/2012 5:14:32 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 780
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