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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/20/2012 5:37:20 PM

fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder
She was always calling the cops on us and making up stuff just because we were outside making noise in the middle of the day. No charges were ever pressed though since we weren't doing anything wrong or against the law.

Yes, precisely, people call and accuse people of all sorts of things. It does not mean the police always show up, and it does not mean if they do they are arresting everyone in sight without further evidence of some actual illegal activity. Police generally do not arrest someone based solely on someone calling up and complaining about something. I think we all have an old hag a bag from our past. But I don't ever know of anyone who actually got arrested over such complaints.

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/20/2012 6:55:40 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
She was always calling the cops on us and making up stuff just because we were outside making noise in the middle of the day. No charges were ever pressed though since we weren't doing anything wrong or against the law.

Yes, precisely, people call and accuse people of all sorts of things. It does not mean the police always show up, and it does not mean if they do they are arresting everyone in sight without further evidence of some actual illegal activity. Police generally do not arrest someone based solely on someone calling up and complaining about something. I think we all have an old hag a bag from our past. But I don't ever know of anyone who actually got arrested over such complaints.

except that with this complaint the neighbor said the kids were at serious risk since she claimed she accidentally hit one with her car.. for that yes the cops have to act cuz its not simply a noise complaint (which is not illegal, in most cities noise is a bylaw infraction which is totally different).. but this was a child endangerment thing.. And i stand by what i said since that is exactly what a cop recently told me if someone says you stole something, theft is illegal and they have to open a file, they may or may not arrest or charge you right away (depending on the situation) but they have to investigate and that file will be part of your permanent record, even if nothing further happens..

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/20/2012 7:18:27 PM

kdsub

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I’ll bet this is another concocted story by the local news agency on a slow news day. Purposely stated to get a reaction by the viewing or reading public.

There is always more to this type of story then is reported so I would not but too much credence into the truthfulness or completeness of the facts.

That said….no I would not let my 6 year old alone playing unsupervised…now I might depending on how responsible the 9 year old was let him or her and the 6 year old play in the yard depending on the traffic situation and the safety of the neighborhood.

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/21/2012 7:13:35 AM

fucktoyprincess

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
She was always calling the cops on us and making up stuff just because we were outside making noise in the middle of the day. No charges were ever pressed though since we weren't doing anything wrong or against the law.

Yes, precisely, people call and accuse people of all sorts of things. It does not mean the police always show up, and it does not mean if they do they are arresting everyone in sight without further evidence of some actual illegal activity. Police generally do not arrest someone based solely on someone calling up and complaining about something. I think we all have an old hag a bag from our past. But I don't ever know of anyone who actually got arrested over such complaints.

except that with this complaint the neighbor said the kids were at serious risk since she claimed she accidentally hit one with her car.. for that yes the cops have to act cuz its not simply a noise complaint (which is not illegal, in most cities noise is a bylaw infraction which is totally different).. but this was a child endangerment thing.. And i stand by what i said since that is exactly what a cop recently told me if someone says you stole something, theft is illegal and they have to open a file, they may or may not arrest or charge you right away (depending on the situation) but they have to investigate and that file will be part of your permanent record, even if nothing further happens..

I stand by my post. I think to arrest a mother, and keep her overnight (where did her children stay that night?) when it should have been clear to the officers that neither child was actually injured, seems like there was no probable cause for arrest in this particular case. I am quite sure the mother will be successful in her law suit against the police. The police are not allowed to solely rely on what some other person says to arrest someone. That's not how it works. Do you really think if your neighbor calls and complains that you are selling drugs (or whatever other story they concoct) that the police will just come and arrest you in your home without any other evidence? That's not the way arrests are supposed to work. And if they do, we have some major issues about police power and the rule of law that are much larger than this small story.

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/21/2012 7:25:02 AM

fucktoyprincess

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https://www.sodahead.com/living/mother-arrested-for-allowing-children-for-playing-outside/question-3188989/

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/21/2012 7:46:39 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I stand by my post. I think to arrest a mother, and keep her overnight (where did her children stay that night?) when it should have been clear to the officers that neither child was actually injured, seems like there was no probable cause for arrest in this particular case. I am quite sure the mother will be successful in her law suit against the police. The police are not allowed to solely rely on what some other person says to arrest someone. That's not how it works. Do you really think if your neighbor calls and complains that you are selling drugs (or whatever other story they concoct) that the police will just come and arrest you in your home without any other evidence? That's not the way arrests are supposed to work. And if they do, we have some major issues about police power and the rule of law that are much larger than this small story.

thats not how it works? if someone tells the police you are selling drugs, being arrested is likely the least of your problems... you think they just nicely knock on your door?.. the cops expect drug dealers to be armed and dangerous and they will treat you as such until they find out otherwise.. search for botched drug raids and find out just how often that happens, sometimes with deadly consequences..
http://www.druglibrary.org/think/~jnr/botched.htm

and nothing will happen with this womans lawsuit against the cops, they were just doing their job as required.. she might have a case against the neighbor but thats about it..

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/21/2012 7:51:05 AM

Hillwilliam

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In addition to the civil suit, I think the neighbor might find herself in trouble for filing a false report.

Either she hit a kid as che claimed or she didnt. If she hit the kid, she left the scene of an accident (a crime).

If she didn't, she has filed a false report (a crime).

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/21/2012 7:51:20 AM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I stand by my post. I think to arrest a mother, and keep her overnight (where did her children stay that night?) when it should have been clear to the officers that neither child was actually injured, seems like there was no probable cause for arrest in this particular case. I am quite sure the mother will be successful in her law suit against the police. The police are not allowed to solely rely on what some other person says to arrest someone. That's not how it works. Do you really think if your neighbor calls and complains that you are selling drugs (or whatever other story they concoct) that the police will just come and arrest you in your home without any other evidence? That's not the way arrests are supposed to work. And if they do, we have some major issues about police power and the rule of law that are much larger than this small story.

thats not how it works? if someone tells the police you are selling drugs, being arrested is likely the least of your problems... you think they just nicely knock on your door?.. the cops expect drug dealers to be armed and dangerous and they will treat you as such until they find out otherwise.. search for botched drug raids and find out just how often that happens, sometimes with deadly consequences..
http://www.druglibrary.org/think/~jnr/botched.htm

and nothing will happen with this womans lawsuit against the cops, they were just doing their job as required.. she might have a case against the neighbor but thats about it..

Errr, I dunno bout where you live, but here in scenic downtown corrupt Baltimore, cops need more than just an informants word to get a bust the door open warrant.
First off, they get lots of false reports, neighbors feuding sorta stuff. What happens when they get a report is they mount an investigation. If investigation reveals suspicious activity they'll usually try to set up a controlled buy or some other way of garnering hard evidence that a crime or crimes have been/are being committed.
Then they go with all that to a judge and get a warrant.
But ya can't barge in merely on an anonymous say so. Things only work that way on Law and Order.

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/21/2012 10:15:58 AM

fucktoyprincess

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FR

This is the claim that I feel the woman has. I do not feel the words of her neighbor alone, especially given the safety of the cul de sac and neighborhood, and given that the children were completely unharmed when the police arrived gives the police probable cause for arrest. The last I checked, the Fourth Amendment was still part of the constitution. I think the police should have just given the mother a warning to keep her children safe, and be done.

False Arrest
The claim that is most often asserted against police is false arrest. Persons bringing this claim assert that police violated their Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable seizure. If the officer had probable cause to believe the individual had committed a crime, the arrest is reasonable and the Fourth Amendment has not been violated. Police can arrest without a warrant for a felony or misdemeanor committed in their presence. (Some states also allow warrantless arrests for misdemeanor domestic assaults not committed in the officer's presence.) Even if the information the officer relied upon later turns out to be false, the officer is not liable if he believed it was accurate at the time of the arrest. To prevail on a false arrest claim, the victim must show that the arresting officer lacked probable cause, that is, facts sufficient to cause a reasonable person to believe that a crime had been committed.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 9/21/2012 10:18:14 AM >

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/21/2012 10:41:17 AM

fucktoyprincess

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Oh p.s., I should have added, if the police were relying on the neighbor's word that they had hit the children with the car, then both the neighbor and the the mother should have been arrested. To have only arrested the mother in reliance on what the neighbor said, when the neighbor is also essentially confessing to a crime, makes it quite clear the officers made a law enforcement error here. Again, the facts don't add up at all.

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/21/2012 12:02:54 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Errr, I dunno bout where you live, but here in scenic downtown corrupt Baltimore, cops need more than just an informants word to get a bust the door open warrant.
First off, they get lots of false reports, neighbors feuding sorta stuff. What happens when they get a report is they mount an investigation. If investigation reveals suspicious activity they'll usually try to set up a controlled buy or some other way of garnering hard evidence that a crime or crimes have been/are being committed.
Then they go with all that to a judge and get a warrant.
But ya can't barge in merely on an anonymous say so. Things only work that way on Law and Order.

yes, i know they would need a warrant and all that.. there are enough cases of bungled drug busts that i think falsely accusing someone of dealing drugs is one of the nastiest things a person can do.. not that anyone that is willing to lie to get revenge, blackmail, etc is anyone i would want to be around.. I have met enough of those types..

I seriously doubt the mother was watching her kids like she claimed.. so both are lying.. Neither of these women are going to like the outcome much.. I would expect their neighbors are treating them both like they are the plague and trying to avoid being dragged into their battle.. I am sure the cops dont appreciate being dragged into it either.. but kids are a touchy issue, i think the cops err on the side of safety of the kids, given bad press about cases where abused kids have fallen thru the cracks.. cops dont want to not act when they should have..

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/21/2012 12:28:38 PM

fucktoyprincess

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I seriously doubt the mother was watching her kids like she claimed.. so both are lying.. Neither of these women are going to like the outcome much.. I would expect their neighbors are treating them both like they are the plague and trying to avoid being dragged into their battle.. I am sure the cops dont appreciate being dragged into it either.. but kids are a touchy issue, i think the cops err on the side of safety of the kids, given bad press about cases where abused kids have fallen thru the cracks.. cops dont want to not act when they should have..

I actually agree that both are likely lying. But I am still struggling to understand how arresting a mother of two and keeping her in jail overnight serves the purpose of keeping the kids safe. The neighbor was not claiming the children were abused. Again, I ask, under whose care were the children after the police arrested their mother? Certainly not the neighbor. I am also trying to imagine how traumatizing this was for the children (to have their mother arrested and held overnight?) If I were a young child I would be frightened by that. Again, when I view the clip of the mother speaking from her home - it appears to be a nice, normal neighborhood. I'm trying to understand how we go from children playing outside in a safe neighborhood (even if unsupervised) to a mother of two spending the night in jail....for nothing....

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RE: Children playing outside is a crime? - 9/21/2012 9:12:59 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I seriously doubt the mother was watching her kids like she claimed.. so both are lying.. Neither of these women are going to like the outcome much.. I would expect their neighbors are treating them both like they are the plague and trying to avoid being dragged into their battle.. I am sure the cops dont appreciate being dragged into it either.. but kids are a touchy issue, i think the cops err on the side of safety of the kids, given bad press about cases where abused kids have fallen thru the cracks.. cops dont want to not act when they should have..

I actually agree that both are likely lying. But I am still struggling to understand how arresting a mother of two and keeping her in jail overnight serves the purpose of keeping the kids safe. The neighbor was not claiming the children were abused. Again, I ask, under whose care were the children after the police arrested their mother? Certainly not the neighbor. I am also trying to imagine how traumatizing this was for the children (to have their mother arrested and held overnight?) If I were a young child I would be frightened by that. Again, when I view the clip of the mother speaking from her home - it appears to be a nice, normal neighborhood. I'm trying to understand how we go from children playing outside in a safe neighborhood (even if unsupervised) to a mother of two spending the night in jail....for nothing....

I expect the kids would have been with child services (or whatever that dept is called). From what the article said, the kids needed to be checked out medically to see if any were actually hit by the car & hurt or if the mother wasnt taking care of them the way she should be.. If the neighbor is saying the kids were left unsupervised, it sounds like it might be considered to be a similar situation as a mother leaving her kids alone while she went out to the store or bar or on a date or whatever, which the govt/cops would not think is a safe situation (depending on the ages of the kids)..

Also, its possible the neighbor might have made other serious claims that warranted the mother being questioned/kept in custody that might not have been reported in the article. Who knows what the real story is, perhaps the neighbor said she saw the mom hitting the kids too in which case, how would you expect the cops to treat the situation? Its not like all news stories are unbiased, sometimes they are given a certain slant simply by leaving out certain info.. I remember a neighbor a long time ago being interviewed on tv and the news story said that the mom was fighting to keep her kids from unfairly being taken away by her parents.. blah, blah, blah.. her and her hubby would scream at each other for hours at a time (inside, outside) and the whole neighborhood could hear them (was that a good enviroment for the kids?).. they were a horrible family but the sympathetic news story didnt show that part of it or that the mom would sometimes slap the kids, etc.. The hubby would do weird things all the time, like throw their dog poop into our yard and stuff.. and after work everyday he would sweep the concrete sidewalk literally for hours.. lol

If you are basing a family situation on the nice, normal neighborhood then that may not be accurate for every family, that would be judging every book by its cover.. violence, alcoholisim, sex abuse, child abuse, etc can and has happened before in all economic levels (not just in families in poor, slum neighborhoods).. just cuz it looks like a nice, normal neighborhood doesnt mean all the families living there are nice normal families, some may be disfunctional and just hide it well and look like they are normal like everyone else...

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