RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (Full Version)

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OsideGirl -> RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (9/27/2012 8:26:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

A friend was trying to "massage" a slave

That's a great statement if we end it right there..... [;)]



hellioncheriecpl -> RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (9/27/2012 2:57:22 PM)

Nope, don't think it's legal. I think words are more binding, but I think I'm one of the few.



LanceHughes -> RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (9/27/2012 6:05:26 PM)

Here in Colorado, there is LEGAL adult adoption.  Can't answer for other states, but a gay BDSM couple did just that, took names, the whole 9 yards.  Their age difference was less than 10 years, so they were never mistaken for father / son, but the legalities were in place when needed.






EFS = edited for spelling



MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (9/29/2012 8:56:40 PM)

I know just enough to know that it's probably not a smart move to put things down on paper. It can and has been used as evidence in trials - and not always with the same partner that also signed the agreement.

In US contract law all parties must be legally capable of signing a contract. The contract must be for equitable consideration. The contract cannot be enforced for illegal purposes.

Considering that some mental professionals consider that practicing BDSM is a mental illness, the value of freedom is considered infinite and certain BDSM practices are considered assault or willful detention that's three strikes right there.

No one is going to arrest you for putting your wife in fuzzy handcuffs you bought at Condoms Galore. Putting stuff down on paper and then tying your wife to the ceiling fan may lead to a different legal conclusion.




DOM68005 -> RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (9/29/2012 9:21:38 PM)

I learned by accidental reading in my state, once you bind someone as BDSM involved folks often do, the one restrained is considers not legally able to freely consent. Under that doctrine, anything you do except release them may not be consented to. Spanking then becomes assult. Sex acts then become legal rape. You get the idea.



MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (9/29/2012 9:33:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DOM68005

I learned by accidental reading in my state, once you bind someone as BDSM involved folks often do, the one restrained is considers not legally able to freely consent. Under that doctrine, anything you do except release them may not be consented to. Spanking then becomes assult. Sex acts then become legal rape. You get the idea.


Yeah, I forgot the fourth part of contract law*: consent. There must be mutual assent to the agreement. Since the contract is about removing consent it would become immediately invalid. That's four strikes.

Slave contracts are not legally enforceable documents. They can be good for a relationship so that both parties are aware of the limits and agreements; they can also hang you.

*Very basic stuff mind you - I'm an engineer not a lawyer



Bemyprize -> RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (9/29/2012 9:41:04 PM)

Slavery is "illegal"

There can be NO contract for any Illegal activity.. the contract is void.

We have used non compete non disclosure contracts that will hold up in court. The basis for the exchange is a liquidated set of damages if either party discusses outside of the relationship the details.

Somewhat like the NCND signed by a nanny or other close worker. In our case we both .. agree that we are working on separate blogs/ebooks and any information/experiences we share are research and not to be quoted without the express consent.

Its FUN.... it's a valid contract... (consideration can be love and affection.... lots of case law on that). As we are not out in our community you are not going to see us running to court to file. We would file an injunction if we showed up in someones blog.




OsideGirl -> RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (9/29/2012 10:02:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DOM68005

I learned by accidental reading in my state, once you bind someone as BDSM involved folks often do, the one restrained is considers not legally able to freely consent. Under that doctrine, anything you do except release them may not be consented to. Spanking then becomes assult. Sex acts then become legal rape. You get the idea.



That's actually why many bondage films up until recently contained no penetration.



FirmHndGentleHrt -> RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (9/29/2012 10:11:43 PM)


Not only is a slave contract illegal, it can be used against the "Owner". Different countries have different ways.

In the US, it is against the 13th amendment.

In the UK, there was the Spanner case. Google it.

Consent to an act that is considered a crime is not a good thing.

Personally, I write "movie contracts" that depict a "script" of actions. Guess what, at least in the US, the 1st amendment "protects" both parties. You can do almost anything in a movie, rape, murder, kidnap, real sex, . What is a little Master/slave "scene" against all that? The parties are just "acting" out the "script". And the script does not have to be written, but let's face it, the same details in the "slave contract" fit nicely as a "script" of actions for the movie. With the exact same benefit of being documented.

Don't break an amendment, use one that defends instead.

two cents.



Aswad -> RE: Is a private contract of slavery legal? (9/29/2012 10:15:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

Then look it up for your country of residence because every government has different laws.


Absolutely. For instance, Norway allows you to voluntarily remand yourself into the legal guardianship of another adult in good standing by a civil lawsuit, although it's going to raise some serious issues (for one, the state can refuse your choice of guardian, and probably will if your relationship heads off in a direction some beurocrat considers detrimental).

A contract can be part of establishing that consent has been present and ongoing in a meaningful sense, and the courts recognize the use of safewords as redefining the nature of consent for the duration of an interaction (i.e. reasonable doubt applies if the safeword was not used in a context where a safeword is documented to have been agreed upon).

The limit of consent here is grievous bodily harm. You can't consent to that with a partner. Of course, the definition of grievous bodily harm is essentially an injury that unambiguously causes permanent disability of a sort that is a serious obstacle to gainful employment and a serious impediment to quality of life. I'm thinking most of us will stay inside those limits anyway.

An ongoing trial is expected to define the bulk of what the possible range of consent is in the context of an M/s relationship, with possible outcomes ranging from acquittal to 31 years plus indefinite custody. I doubt the case will be resolved until it gets up to the supreme court level, where they tend to be rather impressively discerning in such matters at times.

Actual slavery contracts would run afoul of the courts' discretion to consider the realities of a situation independently of the technicalities. One can get just about everything short of having the police bring people back (which they do if you've got the legal guardian thing setup and they don't feel compelled to bring the person to a medical ward for an evaluation). But the realities of that are illegal, so it would not matter that the arrangement is in itself technically legal, so long as the net result isn't.

I cannot see slavery in the kinky fantasy sense being enforced without actually buying a whole sovereign jurisdiction and being able to be independently functioning as one. There is quite simply too much momentum against the historical (and contemporary) practice for that to be a viable thing for any society to get away with approving, even under initial consent. No nation will give someone complete autonomy, including the right to disown such autonomy.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



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