RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (Full Version)

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nighthawk3569 -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/16/2006 7:42:07 PM)

hip hip hurrah!!!
 
 Business owners should not only be free to post such signs as they wish...they should be free to refuse service to anyone they choose!
Who is taking the risks of business, paying taxes, giving people jobs, etc? Certainly not the city, any other government agency, or any of the bleeding-heart groups who oppose individual freedom. Now, it seems, English-speaking people are second-class citizens in their own country. 
                                                                       'hawk



Lordandmaster -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/16/2006 9:40:49 PM)

Yay!  Let's go back to the Jim Crow South!  Better yet, let's bring back slavery!

quote:

ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569

 Business owners should not only be free to post such signs as they wish...they should be free to refuse service to anyone they choose!



kiska -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/16/2006 9:50:52 PM)

What does this have to do with slavery?

I spent two years living and working in New Jersey; if there was anything I learned, its DAMNED frustrating trying to serve a person who doesn't speak English and REFUSES to learn! Tourists are one thing ... I guess ... But still ... Learning how to say "cheesesteak" when you want to eat a "cheesesteak" ... How is that so horrific and awful?

From everything I've read on this, and I've read several articles, he's not turning anyone away. He is simply putting forth the effort to teach them how to properly order the food ... If anything, I would have been grateful if any of my employers had taken the time do that at the places where I worked.

It was extremely nerve wracking trying to serve a small crowd of people when about 50% of them spoke languages I didn't understand. If they had just taken the time to learn the word of the food they wanted to eat, it would have made things more enjoyable for everyone involved.

Its not like he's demanding they become fluent in English, just learn to say the word "cheesesteak" ...



Lordandmaster -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/16/2006 11:53:08 PM)

Well, I explained on the other thread why this doesn't really have anything to do with immigrants.  You really believe the immigrants in that neighborhood don't know how to say "Cheesesteak please"?  As I've said, I know that neighborhood; first, there aren't that many immigrants, and second, they all know how to say "cheese steak."

This is about Geno's white, English-speaking customers--drumming up support for his business by tapping into the widespread dislike of those confounded immigrants with their broken English.



MasterKalif -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/17/2006 12:05:21 AM)

I cant believe the ignorance I read on these posts sometimes....since when is "broken English" something unlawful? I am a foreigner myself, and while my English is excellent (written and spoken), there are times when I slip up on a word, and have an accent....now considering I am considered wealthy by many standards....a lousy red -neck owner will keep me out of his cheap burger joint because he considers I speak 'broken' English? who are we kidding....some of you who only speak English have much to lose, consider how funny it is for some foreigners to hear an English speaking American converse in lousy Spanish, or better yet, not knowing any at all....maybe in Mexico or wherever, they will throw you out too! lets put things in perspective: in a country like the United States, while the "official language" should always be English, and I agree those immigrants should make an effort to learn English, everyone has a right to speak in whatever language they desire, even if it is Esperanto or even Latin. I also dont agree with a "Spanish" version of the National Anthem, as it should be sang in its original tongue....but lets not go into extremes.[:@]



MisPandora -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/17/2006 12:18:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

An English-only ordering policy at one of the city's most famous cheesesteak joints drew a warning Monday from officials who threatened to file a discrimination complaint.

Link to story

Good for him.  I applaud him for taking a stand against folks who come to his South Philly business and pull that sort of nonsense.  He's not denied service to anyone, merely, he's stating his position that he really wants people to order in english -- and his employees, who speak only english, will do their best to help a customer through the order.  It's not like the words "CHEESESTEAK WITH"  are hard for anyone.  It's even spelled out on the simple menu.

If I travel as an American to a foreign country, I'm expected to at least be able to get by with the native language, or make accomodations for someone to interpret for me.  It's that simple.  It's not the obligation of the host country much less a small business to provide interpretation services or even accomodate someone who speaks a foreign language.



MasterKalif -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/17/2006 12:22:10 AM)

I dont understand why tourists have to know perfect English....why is that nonsense? I dont think any tourist really expects to order in their own language....that is fairly obvious....[&:]



MisPandora -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/17/2006 12:22:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiska
I spent two years living and working in New Jersey; if there was anything I learned, its DAMNED frustrating trying to serve a person who doesn't speak English and REFUSES to learn! Tourists are one thing ... I guess ... But still ... Learning how to say "cheesesteak" when you want to eat a "cheesesteak" ... How is that so horrific and awful?

It's not "refusing to learn"....it's "refusing to speak the local language" for most.  I run into the mushroom farmers in Chester County, PA -- they speak english, well enough to sell their wares, might I add.  Yet when we come across them in the hospital, they refuse to speak anything but spanish.  Same goes for the guys I come across in Southern NJ in the hospitals that I service.  Usually it's not an issue of someone not speaking english -- they don't CARE to speak it.



MisPandora -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/17/2006 12:25:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
As far as the city goes, I am not sure of the legal grounds they have. Remember the 'No Shirt. No Shoes. No Service.' signs? What about 'Cash Only. No Credit.' signs? The fact is that it does matter if he has turned business away and it has yet to be reported that he has.

The City has an anti-discrimination statute in effect.  And, given the wording of it (discussed at the Gay Pride Parade by two of the city attorneys who were judges with me this past Sunday), the court case should be tres interesting if it goes before a judge!



MisPandora -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/17/2006 12:32:43 AM)

You mixed two paragraphs.

I stated people coming to a Philly restaurant and ordering in a language other than english is nonsense.  I was not implying that those folks who are actually doing it are "tourists"; rather, I believe they're more than likely locals who just choose not to speak the chosen language of the city.  This is not published fact, however, it is based on personal observation of the customers of the business in question.

Yes, I'm in Philadelphia!

I made the statement about the tourists and expectations of language based on my own personal experiences in a foreign country, I at least know that I need to know the local language enough to get out of the airport, hail a cab or get on the transit system, and make my way around a hotel, market and restaurant.   If I don't feel my language skills are up to snuff, I make arrangements to have a local host who is fluent in the native tongue.

And FWIW, I support Geno's business 110%.  They give alot of money to the Daniel Faulkner Memorial (a Philly cop shot and killed) and to other law enforcement groups who do charity work.



kiska -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/17/2006 6:45:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, I explained on the other thread why this doesn't really have anything to do with immigrants.  You really believe the immigrants in that neighborhood don't know how to say "Cheesesteak please"?  As I've said, I know that neighborhood; first, there aren't that many immigrants, and second, they all know how to say "cheese steak."

This is about Geno's white, English-speaking customers--drumming up support for his business by tapping into the widespread dislike of those confounded immigrants with their broken English.


Yeah I do, actually. Well, I'm sure they know *how* to say it. They just don't want to. Hello? I lived in NJ for two years ... I was in the middle of everything; Philly, NYC, Atlantic City, etc etc etc ... There was Chinese man who came and bought a sandwhich from the deli I worked in every single day and every single day we tried to get him to actually say what it was he wanted to eat rather than point at things and speak Chinese and get angry when we offered him the wrong thing.

Lunch hour at this deli was murder ... We'd have well over 100 people standing in line, wanting to order their own sandwhiches and here we are trying to figure out what the hell this guy wanted. I know he could speak at least *some* English because he owned a dry cleaning buisness in the strip mall across the street. I took a skirt to him once and he spoke rather decent English to me ...



Lordandmaster -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/17/2006 9:41:27 AM)

Yes, I'm sure that can be frustrating, but the owner of Geno's has never said that he's doing this because it's frustrating to take orders from people who don't speak English.  In fact, he makes a point of saying that he and his staff will patiently help anyone order in English if they try.  So making other people wait on line isn't the issue.

He's said that "these people need to help themselves."  He sees this whole language issue as the white man's burden.  I mean, I think he REALLY sees this as a way to motivate his white, English-speaking customers, but he's pretending that he's posting his sign for the good of immigrants themselves.



kiska -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/17/2006 3:04:45 PM)

So ... Here's an interesting thought.

Why are *you* personally so against what he's doing LaM?

I mean, it is his buisness. If he pisses enough people off he'll probably start to loose money. If he doesn't, he's getting a TON of publicity and free advertising right now. How cool is that?

So how does any of this affect you?



Lordandmaster -> RE: Update on Philly restaurant owner (6/17/2006 8:13:39 PM)

Because, as I've said about a million times already, business owners do NOT have the right to run their businesses however they see fit.  We've been over this, and whenever we get to this point, everyone who disagrees with me either starts calling me names or grudgingly admits that they overstated their case.

I think his sign and the attitude it reflects are ugly; I think they make my city and my country look ugly; and I think tourists could be excused for concluding that we're a bunch of fucking barbarians if they see that sign.  This guy already gets tons of free publicity by having his cheese-steak establishment cited in brochures and all kinds of other tourist literature.  If he wants to enjoy all that advertising but doesn't want to play ball, I sympathize with the city for putting pressure on him.

I'm also disappointed by the way he has been manipulating American xenophobia for the sake of selling cheese steaks, and how American xenophobes are swallowing his bullshit hook line and sinker.  I am SO tired of hearing about illegal immigrants and how they are taking over the country.  If anyone is serious about quelling illegal immigration, they have to take on the corporations that hire illegal immigrants.  Good luck.  Until someone does, I am going to file away all the anti-immigrant rhetoric as pure bullshit, served American style.



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