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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/25/2012 5:05:41 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

It is from this letter that people get the phrase "seperation of church and state". This is Jefferson, explaining what was in his mind, when he wrote the first amendment. It may be what was in his mind but it was not what he wrote.

Didn't Madison write the Bill of Rights (about which he was not enthusiastic), drawing on Jefferson's work for religious liberty in Virginia? I think Jefferson was posted in Paris as the Constitution took shape.

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/25/2012 5:21:50 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

It does not however, require the U.S. Government to ignore it's roots as being established by believers of a Creator, in Christian terms, "God". The U.S. was established by men and women of God. Thus, you have God figuring prominently the Declaration of Independence


Two historical notes:

(a) Far less God-talk appears in Jefferson's draft of the Declaration.

(b) In 1797, the Senate unanimousy ratified the Treaty of Tripoli. President John Adams, a man not unfamiliar with the nation's founding principles, signed the treaty. Article 11 states, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."


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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/25/2012 5:51:40 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Choose A or B:

A. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or the press; or the right of the people peacefully to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievences.

Or:

B. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a state religion, or prohibiting the free exercise of any variant of Christianity, but shall permit regulation or prohibition of non-Christian religions and atheism. Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peacefully to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievences.

In your heart (not necessarily in the head), which do you REALLY believe?

We hear from many Americans, for example, that Islam is "evil" and that all Muslims should be locked up and deported to some Islamic country, even if those Muslims. Were born American citizens.

We hear from other Americans that all of America's problems would be solved if we were to re-introduce Protestant Christian prayers into the public school system.

Do you believe in freedom of religion if the religion isn't some version of Christian?

Do you believe that freedom of religion includes the freedom not to believe in any religion at all?


I believe in the Constitution...and it covers freedom of religion (which is also by default, freedom to not believe in a hereafter or God)....regardless of same, evocation, or source.

End of story.

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/25/2012 9:28:45 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

It seems to me some of you make up the constitution depending on what you think and not on what it actually says.


That's how the looney Right arrives at all its 'facts'. They determine their facts from whatever their pre-existing opinions dictate.

This is simply par for the course.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/25/2012 9:32:35 PM >

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 4:14:51 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I believe in the Constitution...and it covers freedom of religion (which is also by default, freedom to not believe in a hereafter or God)....regardless of same, evocation, or source.

End of story.


Exactly this.

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 6:25:42 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
The state is not sponsoring a religion over another when it admits it's people obtain (all) their rights from their creator...


Of course it is. It's clearly sponsoring religions which have a creator over those which don't.

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 6:31:49 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
The state is not sponsoring a religion over another when it admits it's people obtain (all) their rights from their creator...


Of course it is. It's clearly sponsoring religions which have a creator over those which don't.


Just to repeat what I said earlier the Constitution does NOT contain the word "creator"....

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 2:29:58 PM   
GotSteel


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Status: offline 		He is of course ignoring the actual founding document of our country and talking about the Declaration of Independence.

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 4:24:57 PM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

He is of course ignoring the actual founding document of our country and talking about the Declaration of Independence.


It is interesting how many Americans seem to think that the Declaration of Independence is somehow a "law" when it actually was a written justification for having a revolution.

Probably they were home-schooled.


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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 5:40:17 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Status: offline 		I actually am the Creator....so...enough of all your shit.

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 6:40:54 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I actually am the Creator....so...enough of all your shit.


Well G*d D***

This explains so much.

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 6:49:02 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I actually am the Creator....so...enough of all your shit.


Well G*d D***

This explains so much.

Considering the disdain I have for god....it actually does.

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 7:22:49 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

He is of course ignoring the actual founding document of our country and talking about the Declaration of Independence.


Greetings,

Let's see, the Declaration of Independence IS the founding document. It came before the Consitution and declares America a seperate country or "founded". It uses the word "Creator". Therefore the founding document signed by the founding fathers uses the word "Creator".

The Constitution, of which you said in error was the founding document, is instead the law of the already founded country.

Well wishes,
Arturas

< Message edited by Arturas -- 9/26/2012 7:23:41 PM >

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 7:28:31 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I actually am the Creator....so...enough of all your shit.


Well G*d D***

This explains so much.

Considering the disdain I have for god....it actually does.

That's the beauty of me....no disdain needed.


(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 7:28:45 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
The state is not sponsoring a religion over another when it admits it's people obtain (all) their rights from their creator...


Of course it is. It's clearly sponsoring religions which have a creator over those which don't.


Greetings,

What religion did this country sponsor as you say or was it instead a religion that sponsored this country. Why yes, I believe it was, the one that has a creator. So, the creator sponsored this country.

Logic and truth will reign supreme in the end.

Go well into the night,
Arturas


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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/26/2012 7:39:37 PM   
Arturas


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Status: offline 		deleted because it is written out of context.

- Arturas

< Message edited by Arturas -- 9/26/2012 7:43:25 PM >

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RE: Which version do you REALLY believe? - 9/27/2012 9:36:09 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Greetings,

What religion did this country sponsor as you say or was it instead a religion that sponsored this country. Why yes, I believe it was, the one that has a creator. So, the creator sponsored this country.

Logic and truth will reign supreme in the end.

Go well into the night,
Arturas




Logic and truth ?....Your post shows neither. Would you care to show anywhere that says "a religion sponsored America" ?

Are you really suggesting the Declaration of Independence takes precedent over the constitution ? If so that would make the constitution, in your eyes, invalid. Which makes me wonder why you quote it everytime it suits you.

I am surprised some of you keep bleating on about truth and yet are still unable to show it.

(in reply to Arturas)
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