RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (Full Version)

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LadyHibiscus -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 4:09:57 PM)

So...Jesus was from the moon? Where's Rule, he always knows the good conspiracies. Though they're all about herpes...




PeonForHer -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 4:11:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

You can take solace and inspiration from the teachings of Mrs Betty Bowers, America's Best Christian. Her instructional videos - based entirely on Biblical truth - are available at this link:


Superb! Ta for that, Tweaks.

You know, for a split second (before I remembered that it was your lovely self who'd posted the link, natch), I thought, 'Typical hideous American female bible thumper - all grossly overly-made-up; big, white, eat-the-world toothed, frighteningly blank-eyed, huge-nostrilled Stepford Wife wannabe'.

Right, I've wasted enough time on Biblical crap for tonight. I need to work out how to put up a shelf without a drill that'll get through concrete. Useful stuff, that is.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 4:13:14 PM)

I have a drill that will get through concrete.




PeonForHer -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 4:15:36 PM)

I have multiple tools that'll get through concrete, but all of them are in a friend's place over a hundred miles away. All I have with me are my Swiss Army Knife, a bit and brace and a mallet. Bummer. I could get through the wall, but not without risking bringing the entire wall down in the process. :-(




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 4:17:18 PM)

Tut. Always keep your tools handy.




LadyPact -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 4:41:20 PM)

OP, that wasn't exactly one of the better written originals that we've had around this joint. As another poster mentioned, we have had good conversations on the subject before, though it would be a tough one to find through the search feature. (At least it was for Me. I know I've answered this same question several times and I couldn't even find My own damn post on the subject. [:@])

I don't think what we have is God having a case of manufacturing flaw. I really think it's the other way around.

I think what we have is a case of men trying to put the word of God down to paper, but without having the omnipotence of God for them to be able to do so. Just think about the knowledge gap! They had the minds of humans over two thousand years ago. Can you only imagine the things they knew NOTHING about? Try explaining something like DNA to one of those guys. How well do you think that would work?

I've got a lot of faith in God doing what he means to do. Human beings, however, make mistakes that are based in a lack of understanding. In addition to that, there are also the potentials of mistakes in translation, reprinting, poor influence (because, I mean, how many people have done not very good things, but said they were doing it under God?) etc.

I really think when people go cherry picking through the bible for their own slant, you kind of end up with a mess. I think it goes a lot better just trying to be a good person and I admit to messing that up, sometimes.

Oh, and to Otters, thanks for posting that gem!







Aylee -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 4:46:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Right, I've wasted enough time on Biblical crap for tonight. I need to work out how to put up a shelf without a drill that'll get through concrete. Useful stuff, that is.


Gorilla Glue.

Rent a drill.

Borrow from a neighbor.

Using lumber make a back stand for your shelving.

Use spring loaded plastic freestanding shelves.

Although, really you cannot beat properly drilled fixing.




kdsub -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 4:54:49 PM)

quote:

I could get through the wall, but not without risking bringing the entire wall down in the process


Don’t worry I’ll get one of those typical American Bible thumping females to pray for you.

Butch




stellauk -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 4:57:18 PM)

I'm not a Christian, but was raised Protestant but have been part of the Theravada since my teens (yeah, a sort of Buddhist fundamentalist) but if I were..

'I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'
John 14:6

This quotation in the Bible for me trumps all the others. Is not the symbol of Christianity the cross or the crucifix?

This to me isn't about being right. If Jesus wanted to be right then surely he would not have hung about among all those prostitutes, homosexuals and sinners, he would not have gone against either the Jews or the Romans. But he did.

The teachings were about taking responsibility for making your own moral and spiritual decisions Why else would there be teachings along the lines of 'judge not'?

These sorts of arguments to me resemble those about online BDSM. Sure you can get lots of information about BDSM and stuff online, but it doesn't compare with actually doing it.

Surely reading the Bible and being able to quote from it isn't the same as being a practising Christian.

But then again I feel that too much attention is paid to what is written in books, or scriptures, and not enough time is spent working on the spirit and learning to listen to the voice of one's soul.




LadyPact -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 4:58:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Don’t worry I’ll get one of those typical American Bible thumping females to pray for you.

Butch
I was going to say that the only time I think of Myself using the term God in any way related to peon is absolutely NOT something bible thumpers would approve of. [8D]

(Man, I was trying to at least get the joke to make sense, but sheesh.)





kdsub -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 5:00:16 PM)

quote:

But then again I feel that too much attention is paid to what is written in books, or scriptures, and not enough time is spent working on the spirit and learning to listen to the voice of one's soul.


Very well said stella and your thoughts mirror mine.

Butch




kdsub -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 5:01:57 PM)

quote:

NOT something bible thumpers would approve of.


I think they would surprise you LadyPact.

Butch




Rule -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 5:37:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
"But…but you can't treat religion as a sort of buffet, can you? I mean, you can't say yes please, I'll have some of the Celestial Paradise and a helping of the Divine Plan but go easy on the kneeling and none of the Prohibition of Images, they give me wind. Its table d´hôte or nothing, otherwise…well, it would be silly." ~ Moist Von Lipvig

Sure one can. In fact according to the New Testament it is obligatory:

quote:

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test everything. Hold on to the good.




Rule -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 6:03:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Disclaimer 1: I'm Jewish.

It is unfortunate that your penis got mutilated without your consent, but remember that it would have been even worse if you had consented, for then you would have the blame yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Jews don't subscribe a lot to the top-down model, in which the priest/minister/imam reads up, and then gives a shut-up-and-listen talk to the flock, explaining what God meant and passing off his own interpretation as literal statements from God. For us (well, for Reform Jews, not Orthodox), the rabbi gives his or her take,, and others chime in. It's actually considered praiseworthy to engage the rabbi in discussion.

That is unfortunate as well, for if everyone is equally wise, by definition everyone is equally stupid as well. Whereas if there is a single person who is even a tiny bit more wise than the others, those who are relatively stupid would be wise to do as he (or she) tells them to do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Disclaimer 2: I'm an engineer.

So were some of the pagan gods of the Jews. (Yes, I know that they deny to have had pagan gods - but the truth does not care about people who are in denial.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I like well-constructed arguments, with sources well documented.

So do I. I very much would like sociologists and anthropologists to present research results concerning the frequency distributions of homosexual behaviour between different gene pools; I am rather convinced that they differ.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
3. The Bible is IMO a fascinating work, and one of great wisdom.

I agree that it is interesting. Whether there is wisdom in it, is a matter of perspective.




slvemike4u -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 6:15:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Tut. Always keep your tools handy.

My tool is always handy [:)]




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 6:16:21 PM)

But can it drill through concrete, Mike?[;)]




slvemike4u -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/1/2012 6:18:40 PM)

There are times it seems so [&o]



Thankfully,I have never actually needed to put it to the test though [:D]




Borg85 -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/3/2012 3:16:53 AM)

Just posting to point out that while the Bible prohibits male on male homosexuality it doesn't say a single word against girl on girl as far as I am aware, it's all explicit man on man.

So yeah, Lesbians feel free to go out and be lesbian, God's fine with that.




kalikshama -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/3/2012 6:31:48 AM)

http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/Leviticus.php

If translated word for word, Leviticus 18:22 is roughly ‘And with mankind you shall not lie beds (plural noun) a woman/wife (singular noun).’ This final two-noun phrase is unclear in the original Hebrew; it is shared with Leviticus 20:13 (yet sometimes translated differently in the two verses), and it doesn’t occur anywhere else in the Bible. Although ‘beds of a woman’ seems to be the consensus for its meaning, other prepositions and relationships are also possible.

...Alternatively, the verse could be interpreted to produce ‘And with a male you shall not lie [in the] beds of a woman,’ which is to say that if two men are going to have sex, they cannot do it in a bed belonging to a woman, i.e., which is reserved only for heterosexual intercourse.

Both this verse and the other from Leviticus (see below) appear in a holiness code that applied to Israel rather than to gentile Christians in an age of grace. Both occur in the clear context of opposition to the practices of the local fertility god Moloch; verse 21 sets the stage for this one by forbidding people from allowing their children to be burned in sacrifice to Moloch, verse 23 prohibits intercourse with animals (the idol of Moloch was in the form of a bull with a man’s head and shoulders, so this verse too may refer to idol worship). At the time, in order to get a conviction, Jewish law required four (male) witnesses, so whatever the action condemned in Leviticus was, it was likely a public event (there are no instances recorded in the Talmud of anyone being brought before the Sanhedrin and charged with homosexual activity). Worship of other gods provided a context where sex is very public, and there are 59 other places in the Bible where the worship of other gods is called an abomination (in the KJV). How could these two verses not apply to temple prostitution?

The probability that ritual prostitution is the context of these two verses is underlined by a later mistranslation of the Hebrew word qadesh, which appears in Deuteronomy (23:17), 1 Kings (14:24, 15:12 & 22:46), and 2 Kings (23:7). Literally the word means ’holy one’; it is clearly used in these verses to refer to a man that engages in ritual (pagan) temple prostitution in order to encourage the god(s) to make the earth and its creatures more fertile. By analogy many scholars interpret the verses in Leviticus as specifically referring only to sexual activities in a pagan temple ritual.

In the King James Version the word qadesh was translated for the first time as ‘sodomite,’ a word that at the time generically referred to any person who engaged in ‘unnatural’ sexual acts of any type. The New King James and 21st Century King James translations inaccurately retain the word ‘sodomite’ even though today it refers specifically only to males who engage in anal sex; most other Bibles more accurately translate it as cult, shrine, or temple prostitute.

The exact meaning of the original passage in Leviticus is therefore unclear. Translators face a choice between alternative prohibitions of:

- homosexual behavior by either sex
- sexual behavior between two men
- sexual behavior between a man and a married man (or perhaps three people, including at least one man and one woman)
- just anal sex between two men
- just pagan temple ritual sex (between two men?)
- sexual activity between two men in a woman’s bed




DomYngBlk -> RE: Is the bible right about Homosex ? (10/3/2012 6:48:07 AM)

I don't know about any of the bible stuff foxie, but just wanted to say you looked damn good in that Pic.




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