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Wants vs. Needs - 11/4/2004 9:36:31 AM   
feline


Posts: 1101
Joined: 2/23/2004
From: CA
Status: offline 		In a lot of boards and groups I belong to, I hear a lot about "wants". From both Doms and subs. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I don't have "wants". But someone who can fullfill my "needs" is much more important to me.

So what I'm asking is;

1) Can you distinguish between "want" and "need"?

2) Which is more important to you?

Thanks and take care,





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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/4/2004 9:52:00 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Yep, someone who can fulfill my needs is much more important to me as well.

A need is air to breathe. I'm also guilty of wanting it.

A want is someone to do wax play with me.

Yes, I know I'm a little off track but the difference between wants and needs to me is like day and night.

By your question is sounds as if it isn't to many of the people you talk to daily.

(in reply to feline)
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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/4/2004 9:53:16 AM   
strongnsubmissiv


Posts: 197
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feline

So what I'm asking is;

1) Can you distinguish between "want" and "need"?

2) Which is more important to you?

Thanks and take care,






I can and do. In fact, i look at this whole lifestyle (for me) as a need and that's not being selfish. I like to look at bdsm as a sexual orientation, it's part of my sexual fabric. (Not to confuse the issue with sex itself, it's far deeper than just sex)

Something else i've learned, is that the community can be divided into two groups, those who need it, and those who want it. There's nothing wrong with either side, however i have experienced some disbelief from the "want" side. Many wanters don't believe some of us are just wired this way.

I parallel it with homosexuality. The feelings are exactly the same, for some of us.

To me, needs are harder to live without.

sns


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*** Strong and submissive are not contradictions ***

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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/4/2004 10:09:03 AM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		My biggest *need* is a feeling of security. I consider it to be a basic human one though. *Wants* are easier. Those are something I have learned that I thought I *needed*, I discovered I only wanted.. because to me the difference is a *need* is something you can't live without,, and *want* is something you can.

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Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/4/2004 10:12:32 AM   
StevesPetLex


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/14/2004
Status: offline 		Wants and Needs.... Needs are essential they are what keep and maintain us. I feel that if you have your needs met wants will just naturally follow in making you a very completely fufilled person.

I beleive Needs are the important one of the two. Because Sir meets my needs. And wtih my needs met there are very little other things I want...

I don't know just my thought :)


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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/4/2004 10:47:35 AM   
Yankeestick


Posts: 91
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline 		Damn good topic - I've found that distinguishing between the two takes both life experience and a willingness to introspect. And of course the answers we come up with are as different as our fingerprints.

Here's a want/need pair for me:

I want a partner who is willing to indulge my personal sexual passions, like enema training.

I NEED a partner who is absolutely committed to personal integrity in her relationships.

That means if I had to choose between two candidates: one who is squicked by my kink but is a person of real character (a "mensch" is the generic yiddush term, as applicable to women as men) - and the other who'd go bottoms up for me anytime I say, but doesn't know the difference between emotional honesty and her wet asshole - then I'd go with the first, and run like hell from the second.

Of course - grin - the trick is to find BOTH in the same package.

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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/4/2004 12:23:27 PM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		Very often, people do not take the time nessesary to distinguish between what they want and what they need. Much like the difference between "emotions" and "feelings" (as Gurdjief would posit the difference between these two concepts), to the average person, a want is little more than an immediate need, a need that passes after it had been fulfilled or the moment of wanting has ended. I frequently want new clothes. I very rarely actually need new clothes (and in fact, the climate being what it is here in california, I hardly need clothes at all, save as camoflage to protect me from the vanilla people).

My mistress used to say that "it's good to have wants". Very frequently, she would deny me those desires, but it was good that I had them. No fun denying somebody a thing or experience they have no interest in, after all.

My basic needs are always my first priority. Food, shelter, protection from the elements, security. To a lesser extent, human contact, companionship, and entertainment, but I can do without those things for an extended period of time if I have to. Really, I consider most other things to be wants, rather than actual needs, but some needs are powerful enough, and sufficiently recurring, to be categorized as a sort of "soft need" (as opposed to the "hard needs" posited above).

I need to take care of the people that I care about. This is so deeply ingrained into my psyche that I can not stop myself, even when I know for a fact that it is a thing I should not be doing or something that I do not want to do. If it means helping a person I despise, or even someone I know for a fact intends me harm, but it still involves taking care of someone I like, I'll probably do it any way and hang the consequences. I guess that's just the submissive arm of my nature rearing it's ugly head.

I need for a limit that I establish to be respected. The limit may be removed after some negotiation, but no one (not even my mistress, back when I had one) is allowed to simply ignore a personal limit. I also expect other people to keep within their stated limits, and become very upset when someone sets a boundary and then breaks it (swearing monogamy and then cheating a few weeks later, for instance). I suppose this is an aspect of my dominant side rearing it's ugly head.

How come nothing in our language ever rears it's pretty ass?

I need time alone. I need time with other people. I need to be in a comfortable environment where I can be myself and don't have to constantly be on guard.

I want this really cool saint andrew's cross that I saw for sale online. If I had the money, it would already be getting shipped to my home.

I want people to like me, but for the most part I'm happy if they're just not rude to me.

I want my wife here at home, but I'm willing to wait for her to finish this current job.

For me, I suppose, the difference is that a want is something that, no matter how badly I may lust after it, it is still something that I can do without, if I must. Personal impulse control is such a major part of my existance that almost everything to my mind is categorized as a want, rather than a need, because I know for a fact that I can live without it. Soft needs are those things that I can live without, but would really rather not have to. Everything else is just gravy, and gawd knows I love a good helping of gravy.

~S

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/4/2004 12:45:36 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv

Something else i've learned, is that the community can be divided into two groups, those who need it, and those who want it. There's nothing wrong with either side, however i have experienced some disbelief from the "want" side. Many wanters don't believe some of us are just wired this way.


I very much agree with this. There are some people who need BDSM to have a happy and complete life. It isn't a strong want, it is a compulsion. They do very stupid things at times to get it met. Is that compulsion a want or a need? Since it is basic to their happiness, I consider it a need. It isn't a BASIC need. They could do without it. But our goal in life (or at least mine is) is to be happy and content.

quote:

ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv


I parallel it with homosexuality. The feelings are exactly the same, for some of us.



This is a wonderful example. Thank you for including it. I've long been aware that some people are born homosexual and some choose it as a path. I'm trying to think of a more vanilla parallel to make it even easier for some to understand. I'm drawing a blank... one of those days

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/6/2004 10:05:57 PM   
MistressFire70


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Can you clarify? Are you asking if we, Dominant or sub/slave, can identify our own wants and needs or if we can identify these in others?

Fire


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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/7/2004 10:24:57 AM   
newflowers


Posts: 292
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		Very good post S.

quote:

the difference is that a want is something that, no matter how badly I may lust after it, it is still something that I can do without, if I must.


I think this takes us to basic food, shelter, clothing, employment (to acquire the aforementioned) and companionship.

That's a very long list of things to lust after and things that one can do without with the understanding being one's physical and mental health is not jeapordized by the lack.


quote:

Soft needs are those things that I can live without, but would really rather not have to.


Do you then thnk that your dominant/submissive natures and the satisfaction of it falls here in soft needs?

Not having been in a D/s relationship for quite some time, I find that I do other things to compensate for the lack. These other things tend to deal with my need for service which works out okay, not perfect, but livable. Lacking satisfaction in other areas, it is as if there is a well of unfulfilled "soft need" building inside of me. The issue of resistance to avoid doing something that would immediately satisfy those "soft needs" becomes a concern - immediate satisfaction that ultimately leaves me in the same place.

Self control becomes paramount. Knowing that something is not good for me in the long run and so resisting giving in to is hard sometimes. I have been told by two different dominant males that I must not be very submissive because "submissives always seek out dominant situations and relationships even if they are not good for them." I maintain that being submissive and being self-destructive are two entirely different things.

My physical and mental health are not endangered by my lack of BDSM interaction, yet I am not fulfilled in all aspects of my personal life. Does this then really qualify as a need? I rather like the distinction between necessity(need) and soft need - I'm not going to die, but I am not a happy camper on all fronts. Is my being happy a necessity. If "happy" is, in its etomology, being favored by chance or fortune, I believe it is not relevant or, at the very least, the use of the incorrect word.

Even as I (and I believe many here) identify my submissive (dominant for those applicable) nature a significant part of me that requires fulfillment, I fully recognize that I am not harmed if they are not. I like the analogy to homosexuality. However, even knowing a part of you cannot be separated, is the lack of fulfillment detrimental to life and mental health?

newflowers




Everything else is just gravy



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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/7/2004 12:07:14 PM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		WE ALL want LOTS
We ALL need little

I "WANT" a 47 yr old female subbie with lots of piercings, mentally stable, Blonde long hair, Has a good full time job to help with the bills, Who wears my collar prowdly at her work, Weighs about 120-135 lbs. Has good knees, Enjoys off-road racing as my co-driver, Has a few kids but they are all grown and gone and one is a Doctor, one a Dentist and one a Lawyer. Has great moral values but not "religious". Loves Cats. Makes a Great apple pie from scratch. Is willing to relocate. Loves to cuddle, Enjoys Strawberry daqueris and Kahlua. Oh and speaks some spanish so when we race she can converse in mexico better then myself. and since I am asking how about a winning megabucks ticket.

What I "need" is a partner/subbie/slave who loves to cuddle and is HWP.




_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/7/2004 1:28:22 PM   
feline


Posts: 1101
Joined: 2/23/2004
From: CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressFire70

Can you clarify? Are you asking if we, Dominant or sub/slave, can identify our own wants and needs or if we can identify these in others?

Fire




I'm asking if "you" can identify the difference for yourself.

Take care,





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_____________________________

Variety is the soul of pleasure.
~Aphra Behn~

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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/7/2004 3:52:48 PM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Do you then thnk that your dominant/submissive natures and the satisfaction of it falls here in soft needs?


I believe that this would be an accurate assessment of my situation, Newflowers. I spend a fair amount of time in introspective meditation, trying to better understand my motives and needs. I find that this is nessesary for me, as I do have to do without on a regular basis. By cutting through all of the "i wants" that get jumbled up and trying to understand what core need, if any, is the underlying causation of all these wants, I save myself from a great deal of self-destructive behavior.

I have come to understand that I AM submissive, and that I AM dominant, and that whatever dynamic I may have entered into, these traits will make themselves known. As a submissive, I will still enter into a dominance challenge to anyone who appears to threaten or disrespect MY owner or their property/people. I will enfore the dynamic I have entered into just as firmly as any dominant would, and some times find myself in a position of control simply because I have a clearer idea of what the relationship is about that the person who is supposedly controlling me. Similarly, when I have an opinion or some input to add, even as a submissive, I will do so (although I will try to mantain decorum by making a private comment or observation, rather than simply looking someone in the eye and telling them what I think).

In spite of these dominant characteristics, I have been told that I am extremely submissive by nature, and in fact I have observed "service oriented" submissive behavior take up a large part of my life. I will forsake my own needs on behalf of other people. It is in my nature to do so. I will frequently perform favors or make gifts or donations in an anonymous fashion, because even being praised or thanked for what I have done makes me uncomfortable. I do not WANT to submit, submission is part of who I am. It is not a bedroom fantasy, although it certianly spices up the bedroom when I'm allowed to play that part.

These are NEEDS for me. I can not be who I am without them, and they will express themselves in my daily life.

I WANT, by contrast, for my lover to take complete charge of my actions and behavior in the bedroom. I want my lover to not only hear me promise them anything, but to demand it of me. I want to completely surrender myself, if only for a few hours, into the hands of another person whom I love, respect, and trust. This is not always possible, and I know for a fact that I can live without it. I also want the reverse. I want someone to love me, respect me, and trust me enough to completely surrender to me. I want to test them, to push the boundaries of what they are willing to do. This is also not often possible, and I will make do with what I can get. It is not a need, it is a want.

quote:

Self control becomes paramount. Knowing that something is not good for me in the long run and so resisting giving in to is hard sometimes. I have been told by two different dominant males that I must not be very submissive because "submissives always seek out dominant situations and relationships even if they are not good for them." I maintain that being submissive and being self-destructive are two entirely different things.


There are always people who think that submissives are doormats, spineless, mindless thralls and adrenaline junkies who are addicted to the act of suibmission. Your assertion is essentially the same as what I believe, and what I was taught repeatedly as a newbie in the local scene. What you are describing is a self-destructive behavior. Some people are prone to self-destructive behavior, and submission is one more way to get that particular rush. It is not a sane or healthy activity, and I have been taught to embrace the concepts of safe, sane, and consensual as a major part of the lifestyle. This is why I am absolutely insistant in my assertion that the lifestyle is fantasy, whatever facets of "reality" may be claimed by others. This is simply an extreme form of roleplaying, and forgetting that fact leads down a nasty bumpy pointy path to predatory behavior, abuse, and co-dependancy.

Actually, in a lot of ways, I am not a happy person. I am frequently a satisfied person, and I am often a fulfilled person, but happy is not one of my typical states of being. I find that I do not need happyness, and in fact I frequently do not want it, either. I do not even find myself avoiding being unhappy, a fact which I find somewhat odd, as I normally subscribe to a modified form of motivational hedonism, but I derive a sort of perverse satisfaction from the occasional bout of soul-crushing depression. Must just be my masochistic nature, my NEED to suffer, asserting itself when I can't get a pain fix, eh?

Be well, and thank you for the thought-provoking commentary.

~S

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to newflowers)
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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/7/2004 5:12:25 PM   
newflowers


Posts: 292
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What I "need" is a partner/subbie/slave who loves to cuddle and is HWP.


I always wonder about this - if you are the dominant/master and she needs to lose weight, is that not part of your control over her to have her do so?

newflowers

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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/7/2004 5:27:33 PM   
newflowers


Posts: 292
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

a fact which I find somewhat odd, as I normally subscribe to a modified form of motivational hedonism, but I derive a sort of perverse satisfaction from the occasional bout of soul-crushing depression. Must just be my masochistic nature, my NEED to suffer, asserting itself when I can't get a pain fix, eh?


This is quite interesting as I have a similar view. I find that immersing myself is Beaudelaire and some Verlaine, poetry that probes every wound in your heart, is a lovely thing. So this is maschoism. While some sensations play - spankings, floggings - are enjoyable, I do think of them as enhancing sensations. Things that really hurt - like nipple torture - I simply do not like at all. Examining and opening the dark emotions is a philisophical exercise, but it can hurt and feel so good at the same time - like peeling a scab when you're a kid. I consider it peeeling scabs for the adult me - just not from scrapped knees, but a scrapped mind and heart.

I find joy in my daily life, it is a part of me and my world. I seek contentment and find it - in my own way. Joy and contentment, I find in myriad ways and sometimes in just breathing. But happiness - this instant of fortune and light - that is a rare occurance. I think it is most many people, expect there is rarely a distinction between joy and contentment and happiness. Joy and contentment are aspects of my daily life that I purposefully seek. Happiness, however, the fleeting moments of luck, these are rare and not as preferable. I need to find joy and contentment, these are needs that I must have to be mentally and emotionally healthy - I do not need happiness. All bring satisfication, but not all of them bring lasting satisfaction.

Living my submission is part of the way in which I relate. It happens, I find ways to make it happen largely in service. I like it though when someone says, "Oh angel, how wonderful you are." Those things that are feedback indicative of the fact that in my service I have been pleasing - it is a soft need of my submission. Feeling the control and authority of another, making that one my focus - these I do not have. It is here that the self control comes in - no playing around with this because I always end up hurt - it is always a mistake. It is something I want and may even qualify as a squishy need ;), but while I do not wish to live without them, I know there are worse things that not meeting this aspect of my submissive nature.


newflowers





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RE: Wants vs. Needs - 11/7/2004 5:31:18 PM   
INSIDEYOURMIND


Posts: 483
Status: offline 		All I want is a little more than I will ever get................

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How would you know?

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