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2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/6/2012 7:11:44 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		Gobama!





http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/10/06/score-for-obama-the-2012-deficit-down-by-207-billion-and-heading-lower/

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/6/2012 7:23:34 PM   
OttersSwim


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Status: offline 		Republicans of course, will spin it to be somehow not true thereby proving that they are against Obama at ALL COSTS - even to the detriment of the country and their fellow citizens.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/6/2012 7:38:33 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		Actually, I predict they will go further and actually take credit for it.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/6/2012 7:46:27 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		Of course it is.

The GOP decided to block all legislation. The upshot it that spending is down because no bills are getting passed, and Obama is getting the credit. As anyone with half a brain would have predicted.

The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/6/2012 8:37:44 PM   
Fellow


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Status: offline 		Glass half full? I would ask: where does 1.1 trillion come from? Deficit spending is immoral.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/6/2012 9:18:03 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		lol.. the same place the Canadian Debt comes from.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/7/2012 5:34:41 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Glass half full? I would ask: where does 1.1 trillion come from? Deficit spending is immoral.


Why is it immoral? Nobody doubts that the US has the resources to pay it off. Deficit SPENDING is nothing more than buying stuff on credit and, as I say, our credit is good. Maintaining a DEBT is simply not paying the bills in full every month. It's not something foreign to US households.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/7/2012 5:48:40 AM   
Fellow


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Status: offline 		Yes, Canada has the same problem. Although, as a percentage of the tax revenue the government of Canada is not borrowing as much as the current US government. The 2010/211 tax revenue was 237.1 billion, the deficit was 33.4 billion [40% reduction from 2009/2010].
Financing the budget with borrowed money instead of tax revenue is in essence a form of bribery to voters the government uses (people do not pay attention, calculating the impact of debt is too complicated for an average lazy thinker).
The debt has two sides: the borrowers and the lenders. By studying this structure one may diagnose health of the society. I think roughly one third of the Americans (Canada about the same) has no net positive equity, they are the suckers who pay net interest. This group is expanding fast.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/7/2012 5:57:50 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Considering the US holds 4.7% of the world's population and Canada holds 0.5%.... yeah... I can see where you are borrowing less.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/7/2012 6:01:57 AM   
DesideriScuri


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Revenues were up some, which is very good.

Spending was down, which is even better.

I do have some questions, though.

    quote:

    Furthermore, the CBO has released the estimate for the effects of enacting Obama’s budget proposal for 2013 and found that, if enacted, the deficit would shrink to $977 billion, or 6.1 percent of the GDP, a full 2 percentage points below that of 2012 and effectively halving the budget deficit inherited when Obama took office. Another campaign promise fulfilled.


According to the OMB, the deficit for 2009 that Obama inherited (ignoring any spending initiatives he started over and above those the Bush Administration gave him) was $1.412T, 10.1 %GDP. How is it that a deficit of $977B is half of $1.412T, or that 6.1% is half of 10.1%?

Plus, the budget is estimated to bottom out at 2.5%GDP deficits by 2017 and rising to 3% by 2022. How is Obama going to pay down the debt without any surpluses?

Tax revenues were $2.5T, which is near an all-time high (Bush's highest was $2.567T). Depending on the 10's of billions and billions in that, they could be an all-time high.

With revenues near all-time highs, how is it we have a revenue problem and not a spending problem?



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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/7/2012 6:16:17 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		1. You cannot inherit a deficit. Deficits are simply a yearly shortfall. Obama inherited a debt, which is the cumulative shortfall.

2. We have a debt problem. (Although, as I said earlier, it's not that much of a problem.) Calling it either a revenue or spending problem suggests the expected solution. I assume that any realistic solution will involve both reducing spending and upping revenues, although in this partisan atmosphere that may sound too much like compromise to get done.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/7/2012 7:06:03 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
1. You cannot inherit a deficit. Deficits are simply a yearly shortfall. Obama inherited a debt, which is the cumulative shortfall.
2. We have a debt problem. (Although, as I said earlier, it's not that much of a problem.) Calling it either a revenue or spending problem suggests the expected solution. I assume that any realistic solution will involve both reducing spending and upping revenues, although in this partisan atmosphere that may sound too much like compromise to get done.


I disagree with #1 an see #2 as the result of the spending/revenue problem.

1. You can inherit a deficit. Have previous Administrations set the spending wheels in motion? Sure. Does that mean you have to abide by those commitments? Not necessarily, but there had better be some sort of plan. On Day 1, Obama could have told the DoD to do what they needed to do to stop fighting, pack up and leave Iraq and Afghanistan. Would that have been smart? I don't think it would have been, thus, it was spending Obama inherited. Medicare, SS, etc. are all "mandatory"spending. That stuff all adds up and there wasn't an awful lot Obama could do to lower those in FY2009. He didn't have to add to them, but he would have been hard pressed to reduce them. Add into it inheriting an income shortfall from the recession, and you have your deficit.

2. The debt shows how much spending surpasses revenues (forgive me for stating the obvious, but I wanted to start there). If your revenues are too low, or your spending is too high, you will have a deficit leading to a debt. If you make the case that the spending is too high, you are making the case that the current levels of revenues are correct. If you make the case that revenues are too low, you are also stating that the spending levels are fine. With revenues being near all-time highs, spending has to be through the roof, to get the deficits we are seeing. Since revenues are at all-time highs, deficits can't really be caused by the lack of revenues, but by over-spending.



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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/8/2012 6:55:54 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Or you can make the actual case that revenues have been too low for the drunken spending we have been doing everywhere but at home for a long long long long time, and we dont spend at home efficiently because of craven corporate capitulists and porkies.

If you are living in a $1m dollar house and your minimum wage is at an all time high of $7.25....

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/8/2012 7:01:32 AM >

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/8/2012 7:11:41 AM   
papassion


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

1. You cannot inherit a deficit. Deficits are simply a yearly shortfall. Obama inherited a debt, which is the cumulative shortfall.

2. We have a debt problem. (Although, as I said earlier, it's not that much of a problem.) Calling it either a revenue or spending problem suggests the expected solution. I assume that any realistic solution will involve both reducing spending and upping revenues, although in this partisan atmosphere that may sound too much like compromise to get done.



America has promised it citizens tens of trillions in Social Security, Medicare and Medicade benefits. Laurence Kotlikoff, Professor of Economics at Boston University puts America's total liabilities at a mind boggling $222 TRILLION! This will not be due at once but increasing portions will be as America's 80 million baby boomers retire. I'd say this is a BIG debt problem. There is not a chance that America can pay this bill. Promising money is the same as "future spending." Thus we have a spending problem of such a magnitude that revenue CANNOT solve it.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/8/2012 7:15:18 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		And the interest and the military spending, but of course most of the social security was fine until they started robbing it.   What period does the 222 trillion cover?    

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/8/2012 7:21:19 AM   
tazzygirl


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About the Professor...

Kotlikoff ran for President of the United States in the 2012 election, and sought the nominations of the advocacy group Americans Elect[1] and the Reform Party of the United States before ending his campaign in May 2012.

Kotlikoff has written that the economic future is bleak for the United States without tax reform, health care reform, and Social Security reform in his book The Coming Generational Storm and other publications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_Kotlikoff

ahem.... sounds like he has a more personal stake in this than just as an economist

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/8/2012 8:23:47 AM   
papassion


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To conceptualize how big a trillion is, One million seconds is 12 days. One billion seconds is more than 31 years. One trillion seconds is 31,688 years! In other words, if you spend a dollar a second, it would take 31,688 years to go thru a trillion dollars! Now imagine our current debt at over 16 trillion and our future total debt at $222 trillion!

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/8/2012 8:25:36 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		To conceptualize the germainess of that statement, how many shingles does it take to shingle a doghouse?  9.  Cuz Ice cream got no bones. 

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/8/2012 8:47:33 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


To conceptualize how big a trillion is, One million seconds is 12 days. One billion seconds is more than 31 years. One trillion seconds is 31,688 years! In other words, if you spend a dollar a second, it would take 31,688 years to go thru a trillion dollars! Now imagine our current debt at over 16 trillion and our future total debt at $222 trillion!


And yet no one was batting an eye as they were raking in the taxes from these baby boomers.

Dont blame them. And definitely dont penalize them. Blame the politicians who were raiding the funds. One of which your economist wanted to become.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: 2012 Deficit Down By $207 Billion And Heading Lower - 10/8/2012 9:06:10 AM   
Yachtie


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Status: offline 		From CNBC -

A new estimate puts the deficit for the just-completed 2012 budget year at $1.1 trillion, the fourth straight year of trillion dollar deficits on President Barack Obama's watch.

The result was a slight improvement from the 2011 deficit of $1.3 trillion.

There's your 200 billion.



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