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RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/15/2012 6:47:52 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Do you not know tht one of the reasons the bill that became Obamacare moved through congress so slowly was because the Democratic leadership sought Republican input at every stage?

They tried to get the R's to compromise in the way I stated. They did that at every turn.

You're kidding right? The bill would have been a true single payer if no attempt to find a compromise with the GOP had been made.


Yeah, they "compromised." You really gotta stop this stuff. My stomach is starting to hurt from the laughter!

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Maybe you forgot the Koch brothers financing of the groups that disrupted Congressional town halls where the elected officials sought their constitutients input on the bill?

Got proof that all those town halls were disrupted by Koch money?

Who paid for everything? The Koch's and a few allies.


Your "proof" was to restate your allegations and add a "few allies?" What damning evidence!

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Maybe you forgot 'death panels' and 'keep the government's hands off Medicare'?

IPAB. $716B taken out of Medicare (allegedly all from "wasteful" spending) and used to fun the rest of Obamacare.

Not allegedly. The fact is that money is from controlling the rate of increase of Medicare payments (and is exactly the same amount and from the same source that 2 different GOP produced budgets also wanted to save.


Doesn't mean it's wrong.

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Or maybe you are a prime example of what I'm talking about. The Democratic party bent over backwards seeking Republican input on the absolutely needed health insurance reform and all they got from the GOP was 'kill the bill' and lies.

Bullshit. They didn't bend over backwards. They didn't honestly discuss anything the R's brought to the table.

Bull. The GOP brought very little to the table beyond rhetoric. About the only two proposals were tort reform and sell insurance across state lines. Neither one of which dealt with the issues, lifetime limits, dropping for honest application errors, insuring those with pre existing conditions, etc., that needed to be addressed. Also many states have implemented tort reform for medical malpractice and it has had no impact on health insurance costs or coverage.


Well, it's better to have had that than to have passed a bill that has impacted the cost of insurance by making it more expensive, eh? And, at what point is Obamacare making anything "more affordable?"

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Fundamentally the bill as passed was a Republican plan, proposed by numerous Republicans including Bob Dole in the 1990's. The same thing applies to the cap and trade legislation that we needed to begin controlling CO2 releases but again, an immently reasonable and conservative solution was rejected and lied about by the Republicans.

That the plan originated in the Party of R doesn't mean anything about it being good or not.

So you're saying the program pushed by the Republicans was just a ruse to claim they had a plan when they intended to do nothing? Refreshingly honest but a mediocre plan is better than none.


I'm not saying the R's were throwing out a ruse. I'm just saying that ideas can come from the Republicans, too. <cough, cough> Patriot Act <cough, cough>

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CO2 emissions have been dropping in the US as global emissions continue to rise. Global warming hasn't been happening as CO2 has been rising, either. But, let's not quibble over those facts, okay?

Actually the globe has been warming and the corelation is indisputable just ask the climate change skeptics at BEST.


When the models that everyone relies on as proof of AGW don't actually model reality, at what point do we start to scratch our chins and go, "hmmmm....?"


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/15/2012 8:10:19 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Americans For Prosperity is the major money behind the tea party and it is funded by the Koch's.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=tea+party+koch&oq=tea+party+koch&gs_l=hp.3..0l4.242947.246796.1.247406.14.9.0.5.5.0.177.907.7j2.9.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.O3eIzzxGtpU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=4b0300710f71e67&bpcl=35277026&biw=1440&bih=754

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 4:12:24 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Americans For Prosperity is the major money behind the tea party and it is funded by the Koch's.


Do they run the Tea Party, or are they just providing the money?

From the reads, it sounds more like they give the money out to causes they favor, which is different from giving out money to causes they run.

(edited to add:)

I will point you to my first response in the thread, "CEO to Workers: I May Fire You if Obama Wins."

The last part is the only part that addresses the OP directly, and fits here, too.
    quote:

    To address the OP.... That CEO should have some sort of consequence. That has to be coercion of some sort.



< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 10/16/2012 4:16:01 AM >

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 7:36:46 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		And since Koch industries is privately held and mostly does business with other businesses, like minded businesses by and large, the only consequence available to those who care that a few billionaires are trying to destroy democracy in this nation is to make sure their bad behavior is known to the public so the public at large is skeptical of these astroturf groups.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 1:50:05 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
And since Koch industries is privately held and mostly does business with other businesses, like minded businesses by and large, the only consequence available to those who care that a few billionaires are trying to destroy democracy in this nation is to make sure their bad behavior is known to the public so the public at large is skeptical of these astroturf groups.


How is Democracy being destroyed?!? The Republic will survive, btw.

What is the end-game for the Koch brothers? "Get rich" or "more money" aren't acceptable answers, either. Everyone, for the most part (the list of exclusions includes that damn baby on the credit card commercial) wants more money. How is it they are going to get more money?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 1:55:08 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		To have a government that is very willing to align with their schemes.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 2:57:41 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

To have a government that is very willing to align with their schemes.



Now we're back to the vast right wing conspiracy

_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 3:33:30 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Do they run the Tea Party, or are they just providing the money?

This is American politics: why on earth should there be any difference between the two?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 3:54:45 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Or we can place the blame where it belongs, with the guy who has been killing jobs for the last three and a half years.

Pretty clearly what O59 is doing.

Charles and David Koch finance the tea party which served to push the Republican Party base into a fantasy land where compromise is seen as wrong. This has been killing jobs for the last 3 and a half years.



Folks, this isn't a Koch brothers issue, nor is it an issue regards that guy who owns a travel company (Seigal, if I remember correctly)...this is a "Citizens United" (corporations are people too) issue which came about during Obama's administration and frankly, for a guy who said in 2008 "I won't take federal money" and then did....trust me, as much as he bitches...he's quite happy with this gig.

The Koch Brothers, among others are simply playing the cards that were dealt them and prior to 2009, those cards didn't exist.

Blame the Supreme Court, who Obama put in just exactly enough Justices to cause it to happen.

Corporations are NOT people...but you....we....me....I....have allowed this.

It ain't "them" people....it's you.

Vote to change....and you can absolutely be assured....a vote for Obama is a vote to keep things the way they are (see above regards a man who said "nope....not gonna take any federal money"....and then did....exactly that.


< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 10/16/2012 4:01:23 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 4:00:17 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And since Koch industries is privately held and mostly does business with other businesses, like minded businesses by and large, the only consequence available to those who care that a few billionaires are trying to destroy democracy in this nation is to make sure their bad behavior is known to the public so the public at large is skeptical of these astroturf groups.


Remember....Citizens United allowed the Koch Brothers to espouse these views.

It also allows Obama to garner unprecedented cash to espouse his....even as he can deny he ever said the words.

It's a double edged sword....and it needs to be eviscerated.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 5:21:34 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
And since Koch industries is privately held and mostly does business with other businesses, like minded businesses by and large, the only consequence available to those who care that a few billionaires are trying to destroy democracy in this nation is to make sure their bad behavior is known to the public so the public at large is skeptical of these astroturf groups.


How is Democracy being destroyed?!? The Republic will survive, btw.

What is the end-game for the Koch brothers? "Get rich" or "more money" aren't acceptable answers, either. Everyone, for the most part (the list of exclusions includes that damn baby on the credit card commercial) wants more money. How is it they are going to get more money?

They're not after money. They're after power. They intend to leverage their money into uncontested dominance of US politics.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 5:32:58 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
And since Koch industries is privately held and mostly does business with other businesses, like minded businesses by and large, the only consequence available to those who care that a few billionaires are trying to destroy democracy in this nation is to make sure their bad behavior is known to the public so the public at large is skeptical of these astroturf groups.

How is Democracy being destroyed?!? The Republic will survive, btw.
What is the end-game for the Koch brothers? "Get rich" or "more money" aren't acceptable answers, either. Everyone, for the most part (the list of exclusions includes that damn baby on the credit card commercial) wants more money. How is it they are going to get more money?

They're not after money. They're after power. They intend to leverage their money into uncontested dominance of US politics.


To what end? What is in it for the Koch brothers?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 5:36:46 PM   
gordtransporter


Posts: 1
Joined: 8/30/2012
Status: offline 		They're after the power?? How about Obama and the rest of the Dem's and the power that Marxist holds and wants to hold. Thats what holds the rest of the country hostage with Obama care.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 6:06:20 PM   
Whippedboy


Posts: 61
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		As a health provider vague, blanket statements like these reek of ignorance--willful or otherwise. If you make statements like this, give examples of how this is marxist, please?
As for the Koch brothers, here is an example of what they are after. After Walker got in, he fired the guards that work in the state government buildings, senate etc. because they were a union. To take their place, a security group was hired by a company controlled by the Koch brothers at virtually the same pay as the ones that were fired. The fired workers sued for wrongful termination, got their jobs back AND back pay. A GREAT use of tax money, if you ask me. The Koch brothers knew there was going to be trouble when Walker tried to do everything he did and the Koch brothers wanted to be able to control the security of all the state buildings. These are sick mother f'ers and how they think. This is nothing but a game to them to see who can make the most $$ and obtain the most control. It's not about "enough" with these sick SOB's, it's about, "Can I get more."

quote:

ORIGINAL: gordtransporter

They're after the power?? How about Obama and the rest of the Dem's and the power that Marxist holds and wants to hold. Thats what holds the rest of the country hostage with Obama care.


(in reply to gordtransporter)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 8:43:23 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
And since Koch industries is privately held and mostly does business with other businesses, like minded businesses by and large, the only consequence available to those who care that a few billionaires are trying to destroy democracy in this nation is to make sure their bad behavior is known to the public so the public at large is skeptical of these astroturf groups.

How is Democracy being destroyed?!? The Republic will survive, btw.
What is the end-game for the Koch brothers? "Get rich" or "more money" aren't acceptable answers, either. Everyone, for the most part (the list of exclusions includes that damn baby on the credit card commercial) wants more money. How is it they are going to get more money?

They're not after money. They're after power. They intend to leverage their money into uncontested dominance of US politics.


To what end? What is in it for the Koch brothers?

The ability to do as they please seems to be their motivation.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/16/2012 8:44:33 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gordtransporter

They're after the power?? How about Obama and the rest of the Dem's and the power that Marxist holds and wants to hold. Thats what holds the rest of the country hostage with Obama care.

Calling any elected American politician a marxist is pretty much proof that you have no idea what the term means.

(in reply to gordtransporter)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/17/2012 5:24:24 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
And since Koch industries is privately held and mostly does business with other businesses, like minded businesses by and large, the only consequence available to those who care that a few billionaires are trying to destroy democracy in this nation is to make sure their bad behavior is known to the public so the public at large is skeptical of these astroturf groups.

How is Democracy being destroyed?!? The Republic will survive, btw.
What is the end-game for the Koch brothers? "Get rich" or "more money" aren't acceptable answers, either. Everyone, for the most part (the list of exclusions includes that damn baby on the credit card commercial) wants more money. How is it they are going to get more money?

They're not after money. They're after power. They intend to leverage their money into uncontested dominance of US politics.


To what end? What is in it for the Koch brothers?


I think it is that they want to shape policy with their money. Simple as that. More social than economic. A good amount of their business are in polymers. They aren't the biggest or the smallest and should profit very well by the natural gas coming online out of the shale reserves. So end the end, ideology.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/17/2012 6:06:06 AM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
And since Koch industries is privately held and mostly does business with other businesses, like minded businesses by and large, the only consequence available to those who care that a few billionaires are trying to destroy democracy in this nation is to make sure their bad behavior is known to the public so the public at large is skeptical of these astroturf groups.

How is Democracy being destroyed?!? The Republic will survive, btw.
What is the end-game for the Koch brothers? "Get rich" or "more money" aren't acceptable answers, either. Everyone, for the most part (the list of exclusions includes that damn baby on the credit card commercial) wants more money. How is it they are going to get more money?

They're not after money. They're after power. They intend to leverage their money into uncontested dominance of US politics.


To what end? What is in it for the Koch brothers?

The ability to do as they please seems to be their motivation.


With 3 - 5 billion, you don't need new laws to do as you please.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/17/2012 6:10:22 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, you can say that, but then why are they buying up craven corporate capitulists en masse?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Add The Koch Brothers To The Assholes Holding Our E... - 10/17/2012 1:37:23 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The ability to do as they please seems to be their motivation.


There we go with that damn American Dream thing again. People get caught up in it and just don't know when to say enough is enough!

How dare they financially support groups that would bring about smaller government and increase the liberty and freedom of everybody!



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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