Heaven, real?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Heaven, real?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Heaven, real?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Heaven, real? - 10/14/2012 8:34:08 PM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline

Did you guys see the article on Yahoo news about the surgeon who experienced the afterlife?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/heaven-real-says-neurosurgeon-claims-visited-afterlife-213527063.html

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

Profile

Post #: 1

RE: Heaven, real? - 10/14/2012 10:34:29 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

I saw the fact that he is selling a book to make a profit on Earth using his lies about experiencing an afterlife without actually being dead.

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Profile

Post #: 2

RE: Heaven, real? - 10/14/2012 10:51:03 PM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline

But how do you know he is lying about his experience? And I thought the same thing as far as the not being dead part. It said coma not dead. So I agree with you on that.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to DomKen)

Profile

Post #: 3

RE: Heaven, real? - 10/14/2012 11:17:25 PM

SpaceSpank

Posts: 244
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline

He can be telling the truth about his experiences and still not be telling the objective truth.

Being in a coma or near death your brain is still functional on some level (assuming there was not actual total brain death involved). Who is to say what you may or may not "experience" in that state? Our technology is nowhere near advanced enough to answer that yet.

The thing about the afterlife is that if there is something.. it happens "after life". By the very definition you won't know until you're actually dead, and at that point you're not coming back to write a book about it.

Anything before that point you are still alive in some function or another and obviously recover. It's just not a realm that is possible to explore until you get there yourself. And at that point it's either off like a switch or something else... in which case you will find out first hand.

< Message edited by SpaceSpank -- 10/14/2012 11:18:04 PM >

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Profile

Post #: 4

RE: Heaven, real? - 10/14/2012 11:22:38 PM

JanahX

Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline

Heres a whole book list of Near death experiences & life after death experiences.

http://www.amazon.com/Books-on-near-death-experiences/lm/R3A1L300SUT46N

_____________________________

The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Profile

Post #: 5

RE: Heaven, real? - 10/15/2012 7:03:21 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

I have trouble equating "near death" experiences with the actual experience of death. I'm sorry, but they are not the same thing. We can't really know what happens when someone dies because if they truly die, they have no way to tell us.

There are countless examples of near death experiences - and one thing they do have in common is that most people's experiences in that time before they "come back" generally reflect whatever their religious and cultural background taught them about the afterlife. Which suggests that consciousness/subconsciousness is at some level still at play.

In the article Dr. Alexander states, "According to current medical understanding of the brain and mind, there is absolutely no way that I could have experienced even a dim and limited consciousness during my time in the coma, much less the hyper-vivid and completely coherent odyssey I underwent". I understand this to mean that science does not understand fully what happens to the brain and mind during a near death experience. I do not see this as proof of heaven, an afterlife, or anything.

If someone actually comes back from being truly dead, and has something to tell us, then I'll listen....until then, all is speculative.....

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Profile

Post #: 6

RE: Heaven, real? - 10/15/2012 7:07:12 AM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

I ran across scathing criticism of it by Sam Harris:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/this-must-be-heaven
Again, there is nothing to be said against Alexander’s experience. It sounds perfectly sublime. And such ecstasies do tell us something about how good a human mind can feel. The problem is that the conclusions Alexander has drawn from his experience—he continually reminds us, as a scientist—are based on some very obvious errors in reasoning and gaps in his understanding.

Let me suggest that, whether or not heaven exists, Alexander sounds precisely how a scientist should not sound when he doesn’t know what he is talking about. And his article is not the sort of thing that the editors of a once-important magazine should publish if they hope to reclaim some measure of respect for their battered brand.

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Profile

Post #: 7

RE: Heaven, real? - 10/15/2012 7:20:09 AM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpaceSpank

He can be telling the truth about his experiences and still not be telling the objective truth.

Then again, perhaps he is.

Just say'n, ya know?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to SpaceSpank)

Profile

Post #: 8

RE: Heaven, real? - 10/15/2012 7:46:57 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK
But how do you know he is lying about his experience?

How do you know he isn't?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Profile

Post #: 9

RE: Heaven, real? - 10/15/2012 10:55:36 AM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline

I guess we don't. As sad as it is to say, there are far more people in this world who would lie about things like that to make a buck, than there are people who wouldn't.

Oh and SpaceSpank, the article said something about what type of brain activity (or lack of) he had, I forget what it was called.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to Moonhead)

Profile

Post #: 10

RE: Heaven, real? - 10/15/2012 11:14:05 AM

SpaceSpank

Posts: 244
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

Oh and SpaceSpank, the article said something about what type of brain activity (or lack of) he had, I forget what it was called.

Correct, my point wasn't about the type, just that there was activity. If there had been absolute and instantaneous brain death he would not have either:
1) Had this experience at all.
2) Come back to tell us if he did because he'd be entirely dead save for possibly being kept alive by machines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Then again, perhaps he is.

Just say'n, ya know?

Objectively? No, because he has no way of knowing. What he thinks happened is not quantifiable in any way. Just because you (not you in particular, but a general you) may drop a funky tab of acid and have the right conditions to see that the sky is actually plaid doesn't mean the sky actually is plaid, only that to your senses at that one time, which may never be repeatable, it was.

If it was an objective truth you can repeat it, you can test it, and it will be the same every time. That's been proven to not be the case with near death experiences, and is impossible to test with actual death experiences because the person is dead an can't really fill out the reports very well.

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Profile

Post #: 11