RE: Magical thinking (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 9:46:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:


And if I'm not mistaken....Mitt Romney's record as Governor of MA backs up his claim of being able to work better than Obama with Congress....

You're mistaken. State politics are as much like Federal politics as apples to oranges.


Unless it's helpful to link the two by an Administration (and that applies regardless of the Administration in power).




DesideriScuri -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 9:51:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
And I couldn`t give na quarter-shit about "bi-partinsanship".
Working with cons to destroy our economy and country is NOT what most folks call "bi-partisanship".


Especially when they are doing such a fine job on their own! lol [8D]




mnottertail -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 9:51:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
And I couldn`t give na quarter-shit about "bi-partinsanship".
Working with cons to destroy our economy and country is NOT what most folks call "bi-partisanship".


Especially when they are doing such a fine job on their own! lol [8D]



I agree the cons are doing a fine job of destroying this country all on their own. 




DomYngBlk -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 9:58:25 AM)

I think it is clear that Democrats will work with Republicans...ie....Mittens in Mass, Dubya, HW, Reagan..etc etc.....>What isn't clear is that Republicans will work with Democrats. Republicans time and again have shown the inability to govern.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 10:00:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow
Pandering to Spanish-speaking voter is not a bad idea though.

That all depends on how you define a "bad idea." I think pandering to any single group is wrong. I abhor it when it's announced that "Candidate X, from the Y Party is going after the Z Vote."

You seem to be saying that candidates should tell all minorities to go fuck themselves. If tht is so how then does one build a consensus?


Actually, what I'm saying is that every Citizen should be treated as an American Citizen regardless of heritage, skin color, gender, gender role, etc.
quote:

quote:

The Presidency is a National position. It's a position over all the genders, ethnicities, races, etc. Pushing or touting any reforms that give one group "special status" over another is wrong.

Why is it wrong to redress inequalities/


It's right to fix inequalities. If you can dole out consequences to those who have perpetrated the inequalities, then prosecute them for it. However, you might not be able to do that. For instance, punishing me for early American slavery would be wrong since my lineage didn't get here until after slavery was abolished.
quote:

quote:

In the eyes of the Government DYB and I should be seen as American Citizens only. We should not be seen as a white guy and a black guy, a Caucasian and an African-American (I only use him because his profile pic shows a black guy, so I assume he's black; I don't have any clue regarding you). We should be treated as equals.

Any casual observer of u.s. history would be aware that that has not historically been the case. Were you unaware of this?


So, since it hasn't been the case, does that mean it shouldn't be?

quote:

quote:

If I donate to the winning candidate's coffers, I should get the same treatment as someone who donated to the losing candidate(s)'s coffer(s).

When has this been the true?


I'm willing to bet that it was true at some point, but would be considered incredibly rare today. But, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be true.

If you want to rely on prior history or "traditional" events to determine best practices today, you've just killed the LBGT movement. You've given illegitimacy to the American Revolution. You've given legitimacy to the early American slave trade. You, then, support Sharia Law where Sharia has been the law.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 10:07:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Your point of Obama's not enforcing laws is accurate and something should be done about it. It may very well turn out that the laws he's decided to not enforce aren't Constitutional, but that needs to be worked out prior to non-enforcement, IMO.

Which laws are you claiming the President is refusing to enforce?


Obama has refused to defend DOMA in court.




thompsonx -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 3:37:08 PM)

quote:

You seem to be saying that candidates should tell all minorities to go fuck themselves. If tht is so how then does one build a consensus?


quote:

Actually, what I'm saying is that every Citizen should be treated as an American Citizen regardless of heritage, skin color, gender, gender role, etc.


I have heard that lame rhetoric all of my life while the reality is just the opposite. For you not to have noticed the disconnect between your rhetoric and what is indicates nothing but willful ignorance on your part.




thompsonx -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 3:41:58 PM)

quote:

Why is it wrong to redress inequalities

quote:


It's right to fix inequalities. If you can dole out consequences to those who have perpetrated the inequalities, then prosecute them for it. However, you might not be able to do that. For instance, punishing me for early American slavery would be wrong since my lineage didn't get here until after slavery was abolished.


Since you share the largess of those inequalities why should you not be liable for the sanctions imposed for those inequalities?




thompsonx -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 3:51:56 PM)

quote:

When has this been the true?


quote:

I'm willing to bet that it was true at some point, but would be considered incredibly rare today. But, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be true.


I have asked you to provide us with some instance when your "wishful rhetoric" was true...we are still waiting.

quote:

If you want to rely on prior history or "traditional" events to determine best practices today,

That would be your premis not mine. If you wish it justified then it would be up to you to do so.

quote:

you've just killed the LBGT movement. You've given illegitimacy to the American Revolution. You've given legitimacy to the early American slave trade. You, then, support Sharia Law where Sharia has been the law.


Will rodgers once said "before you are qualified to change my opinion you must first demonstrate that you understand my position."
So far all you are doing is makiing up shit that you think you can argue against. Please try to address the points I make and not the "strawmen" that you wish to argue against.




DomKen -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 4:04:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Your point of Obama's not enforcing laws is accurate and something should be done about it. It may very well turn out that the laws he's decided to not enforce aren't Constitutional, but that needs to be worked out prior to non-enforcement, IMO.

Which laws are you claiming the President is refusing to enforce?


Obama has refused to defend DOMA in court.

The law is still being enforced.

The fact is DOMA is unconstitutional, multiple appelate courts have found it violates equal protection. Why should the federal government spend money defending it? How many millions of dollars borrowed from China is it worth?




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 4:52:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So I'm reading a little coverage of the President's campaign efforts in Iowa, and I came across the most remarkable quote.

He was talking about the immigration reform he was supposed to get taken care of his first year in office, and is reported to have said, "Republicans will have learned their lesson," and would go along.

It's right in line with his answer in the first debate, that his way to work across the aisle was going to be to say "no."

Sorry, but if the President squeaks through to a victory, the last thing conservatives are going to do is suddenly decide he was right all along. The same electorate that puts him there will also be sending a Republican controlled house to carry the purse, and their mandate will be just as strong as his, if not much stronger.

Unless he figures, "more flexible after the election," also applies to the Constitutional limits on his authority.

Partisan gridlock is only going to get worse in those circumstances. Do you believe a second-term Obama will come up with any answer at all to the problem?


If Obama gets elected (again), the stock market will swoon, horrifically, and the smart people (generally Republicans) will buy all the stock they can afford because by January, thanks to some level of (final) clarity, the market will rise again.

If Romney gets elected, on November 7th, the stock market will rocket to ridiculous levels, fall again but to a higher level than Obama's fall (as described above) and in the end....all will be largely the same.

Note to DYB: It doesn't make a damn bit of difference who gets elected. In the end...it's the same gawdamn shit.

(Pay attention DYB....there's a lesson here).

(They're all the same, regardless of how insistently you demand they are not at all).




dcnovice -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 4:54:44 PM)

quote:

It doesn't make a damn bit of difference who gets elected.

Two words: Supreme Court




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 5:43:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

It doesn't make a damn bit of difference who gets elected.

Two words: Supreme Court


I stand corrected....fully and with humble acquiescence.




GotSteel -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 5:58:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Wont much of that have to depend on the elections to Congress?


That was my take on things as well. That some of the do nothings in congress who recently had single digit popularity are going to be told not to let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.




TheHeretic -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 6:14:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
Republicans time and again have shown the inability to govern.



LOL. I'm loving the desperate disconnect from reality that is happening across the Obamabot spectrum, as they make their final case "arguments." That's even better than the President trying to claim he never sought a SOFA with Iraq, during the last debate.




Lucylastic -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 6:47:20 PM)

I thought he was looking for a chaise
Badoom BAh
as I thought crappy humour was in line with the "romneybots" comments over the last few days




TheHeretic -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 7:00:39 PM)

Except, "Obamabots," was popularized (sort-of) by an actual liberal who didn't chuck all his values out the window, once a Democrat was in office. The little plays on Romney's name are just the inventions of opposition hacks, trying to do something, anything, to minimize the fact that the American people have now seen Romney without the filter of the negative advertising blitz, and decided that he's well worth a look as an acceptable alternative to this failed administration.





Lucylastic -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 7:14:05 PM)

you keep telling yourself that...you mean obamabots is the worst thing people have changed his name to??? nah I dont believe that for one second.
Personally I was commenting on YOUR use of the word Obamabots:) but it is better than "desperate democrat whores"
so yanno, Ill take what I can get, seeing as its YOU[;)]




TheHeretic -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 7:18:22 PM)

Ok. That, I might very well have said, Lucy. [:D]





Lucylastic -> RE: Magical thinking (10/25/2012 7:20:23 PM)

AHUH[;)]
edited to add, I made sure of it, before saying it..I do NOT want a repeat of the other day[:)]




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