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Leather house vs leather family - 10/27/2012 12:18:32 AM   
samdarella


Posts: 222
Joined: 8/23/2010
Status: offline 		Hi. I was wondering if there is a somewhat general consensus as to the difference between a leather house and a leather family. I think (yes I'm allowed to think, encouraged even) that the house applies to family that lives together and have common goals. A leather family includes people that care for and about each other but don't necessarily live in the same house. Then there's the leather community. Finding just the right words and defining them in a clear, concise way for a manifesto and contract can be quite challenging, even for a wordsmith such as Master.

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/27/2012 11:57:23 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		waits around for LP because I think she's the only one experienced enough to answer this. I don't know anyone else that is leather here. Personally Leather families are well beyond my knowledge.


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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/27/2012 1:26:24 PM   
samdarella


Posts: 222
Joined: 8/23/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks for answering anyway lw. Yes I am interested in hearing LadyPact's views.

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/27/2012 9:22:37 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		I think that asking for a strict (no pun intended) definition is just going to end in confusion.

Every time I see that question it just breeds confusion. I'm sure the pedants will be around shortly to correct me. :-)

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/27/2012 9:34:41 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		It depends,

i am a member of a house with 2 people currently, and we are a leather family. So in a way we with the dynamic we choose are both. He defines it as a house because his relationship with both his primary and me is patriarchal in nature. The house is just us 3 and those who join in relationships. While our leather family is much larger and being a member of the house is not required to be part of the family. Who i consider to be my leather family are the people who are my non blood or even in the case of my mother only blood family. who are there like family for me and I in return.

It really is dependent on who it is you are asking, How long they are in the life, how long they have been in the leather lifestyle, where they are from, how old they are.

I recommend if you can see if the Leather Archive Museum, or the Carter Johnson Leather Library will be in your area. Mama Vi has at least 50 books on your question and more.



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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/27/2012 9:47:10 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		See what I mean?

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/27/2012 9:49:37 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		Malcolm You expect people in any lifestyle to have a concrete definition of anything?

It will never happen...

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/27/2012 10:43:33 PM   
samdarella


Posts: 222
Joined: 8/23/2010
Status: offline 		SpiritedRadiance...that's kind of how we define it. The Leather Archive would almost be worth going to Chicago to visit. No offense to anyone from Chicago. My best friends hail from there. There's just so many other places I haven't been yet. Although Master does like big cities so it may wind up on a vacation itinerary sometime.

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/27/2012 11:59:35 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		No, I don't.

Which is precisely what I said.

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/28/2012 3:28:28 AM   
thexxxxmaster


Posts: 102
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline 		House, family, community. Try a dictionary.

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/28/2012 6:00:04 AM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: samdarella

SpiritedRadiance...that's kind of how we define it. The Leather Archive would almost be worth going to Chicago to visit. No offense to anyone from Chicago. My best friends hail from there. There's just so many other places I haven't been yet. Although Master does like big cities so it may wind up on a vacation itinerary sometime.


Its an amazing experience, Or if you look around look to where the Library and Traveling archive are going to be.

For example In november it will be in the lovely city of Brotherly love for PLPN

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"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/28/2012 6:37:05 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thexxxxmaster
House, family, community. Try a dictionary.


The OP is familiar with those definitions (as am I) and they are not helpful when applied to the leather lifestyle. You will find family as one of the definitions for House (not house). There is gray area and a lot of overlap in the community when is comes to a leather House and leather family. The OP's question isn't looking for the common overlaps (as found in the dictionary) but a "general consensus [from us] as to the difference" between them. Referring to the source (dictionary) of the commonalities won't help. The commonalities come from etymology and definition of family which includes household.

Family
1. a. a primary social group consisting of parents and their offspring, the principal function of which is provision for its members
2. one's wife or husband and one's children
3. one's children, as distinguished from one's husband or wife
4. Compare extended family a group of persons related by blood; a group descended from a common ancestor
5. all the persons living together in one household

Origin & History
1350–1400; Middle English familie < Latin familia a household, the slaves of a household, equivalent to famul ( us ) servant, slave.

Also:
c.1400, "servants of a household," from L. familia "household," including relatives and servants, from famulus "servant," of unknown origin. The classical L. sense recorded in Eng. from 1545; the main modern sense of "those connected by blood" (whether living together or not) is first attested 1667.

“Slaves of a household” and “relatives and servants” makes that a nice fit for BDSM and a leather family and a House seem interchangeable by definition. So the old guard meanings were clear and drew from the definitions of the words, they required you be a slave or a boy (or Master) to be a member of a leather family/House . . . at least that was how they did it where I grew up. It was a very sexual environment and fuckmeat or casual lovers didn’t count as family in the leathermen crowd where I was raised. And this is what started the discussion between samdarella and I. Nowadays we (sam & I) see hetro and gay uncollared (not slave) play partners/lovers referred to as "in a leather family" and/or "member of a House". Hence her quest here to update our vocabulary and see if the community at large had some differences or new meanings of leather family or House.

FetLife has both "in a leather family" and "member of a House" as options. What would make you call it a House instead of a family? Vice versa?

If you were an intimate member of a poly but recently moved out of state and will always be granted privilege and sanctuary, are you "in a leather family", "member of a House", both or neither?



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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/28/2012 2:54:41 PM   
samdarella


Posts: 222
Joined: 8/23/2010
Status: offline 		If I wanted the opinions of Webster or Miriam I would have looked in the dictionary (although I have known those familiar terms since I was about 3 or 4 yrs old). If I want the opinions of lifestyle folks that have lived it or been exposed to it, I ask here on the forums.

Thexxxxmaster... I hope that it is not too traumatic when they remove that stick out of your anus.

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/29/2012 10:16:37 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Sorry for the delay. I was a bit occupied with being a leather person this weekend.

I do have to say that I agree with the statement that the definitions aren't universal. Many people want to take their own interpretations, which may not especially be the way the terms have come up in the lifestyle over the years. With this in mind, here is the way that I use the terms.

A Leather House - These are groups where some kind of power structure is in play, even if it is just the acknowledgement that the highest person in the household will be setting the protocols of the house and the junior leathermen will be abiding by them or at minimum, not interfere with them. When you get to the top of the pyramid, there is one person or perhaps a Dominant couple who holds the final say for the structure of the household. This does not necessarily mean that all members of the household live under the same roof. A person can be considered a member of the household even if they live elsewhere, but are submissive to the Head of Household or are in service there where a dynamic exists. In a House, there is an establishment of hierarchy.

A Leather Family - These are situations where there isn't necessarily a current power structure between the members, but there is a strong emotional attachment that is greater than your average 'we're all leather folks' types. Again, whether people live together or not is not a determining factor. Quite often, this is what gets used when people say they feel as close to someone as a sister, brother, aunt, or uncle when those are the people that they feel the most alliance, but they are not in a romantic relationship or a dynamic. At times, people will use this when a past dynamic was in place or they were the members of the same House, but one or both no longer belong to that House. For example, I know two people who used to serve the same Mistress. They no longer serve her, but are very close to each other. In a Family, there isn't especially a hierarchy, but there are very strong emotional bonds.

Of course, ask a different person and you may or may not get a different answer.




< Message edited by LadyPact -- 10/29/2012 10:17:49 AM >

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/29/2012 11:48:38 AM   
thexxxxmaster


Posts: 102
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: samdarella

If I wanted the opinions of Webster or Miriam I would have looked in the dictionary (although I have known those familiar terms since I was about 3 or 4 yrs old). If I want the opinions of lifestyle folks that have lived it or been exposed to it, I ask here on the forums.

Thexxxxmaster... I hope that it is not too traumatic when they remove that stick out of your anus.


Not half as painful as having your head up your arse.

Use the internet effectively and you will get a far more expansive idea of the "Leather" culture. You could also go ask the local Hell's Angel Chapter as another Alternative lifestyle viewpoint.

Of course as LP stated there are a many different interpretations. House, Family and Community are pretty obvious.



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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/29/2012 12:00:57 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thexxxxmaster

Not half as painful as having your head up your arse.

It appears you're intimately acquainted with both afflictions.

< Message edited by stef -- 10/29/2012 12:01:20 PM >

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/29/2012 12:50:32 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thexxxxmaster


quote:

ORIGINAL: samdarella

If I wanted the opinions of Webster or Miriam I would have looked in the dictionary (although I have known those familiar terms since I was about 3 or 4 yrs old). If I want the opinions of lifestyle folks that have lived it or been exposed to it, I ask here on the forums.

Thexxxxmaster... I hope that it is not too traumatic when they remove that stick out of your anus.


Not half as painful as having your head up your arse.

Use the internet effectively and you will get a far more expansive idea of the "Leather" culture. You could also go ask the local Hell's Angel Chapter as another Alternative lifestyle viewpoint.

Of course as LP stated there are a many different interpretations. House, Family and Community are pretty obvious.





Except... the hells angels are a TOTALLY DIFFERENT type of Leather lifestyle then that of what the OP is asking for.

Perhaps instead of insulting others, you should understand that with Every lifestyle term theres a few hundred acceptable definitions.

And House, Family and Community are extremely different from their meanings in the dictionary.

Hell the house i belong to is different then the leather house other friends of mine are involved in.. Which is different then say how Lady Pact runs her house, which is different then how Others run their house.

Thats why the op is asking.. because the dictionary is insufficient for this answer.


_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/29/2012 2:40:22 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I would have to say that the OP *is* using the internet effectively. She's specifically here because she knows there are leather people on the forums. Maybe not as many as there once was, but enough to think this is a resource.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/29/2012 2:51:42 PM   
thexxxxmaster


Posts: 102
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: samdarella
quote:

ORIGINAL: samdarella

If I wanted the opinions of Webster or Miriam I would have looked in the dictionary (although I have known those familiar terms since I was about 3 or 4 yrs old). If I want the opinions of lifestyle folks that have lived it or been exposed to it, I ask here on the forums.

Thexxxxmaster... I hope that it is not too traumatic when they remove that stick out of your anus.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thexxxxmaster

Not half as painful as having your head up your arse.

Use the internet effectively and you will get a far more expansive idea of the "Leather" culture. You could also go ask the local Hell's Angel Chapter as another Alternative lifestyle viewpoint.

Of course as LP stated there are a many different interpretations. House, Family and Community are pretty obvious.




quote:

Except... the hells angels are a TOTALLY DIFFERENT type of Leather lifestyle then that of what the OP is asking for.


Not really, they are also tied up with the development of Alternative lifestyles. Pun intended

quote:

Perhaps instead of insulting others, you should understand that with Every lifestyle term theres a few hundred acceptable definitions.


You are being very selective in your accusation, I was echoing that of the first poster of an insult.

quote:

And House, Family and Community are extremely different from their meanings in the dictionary.

Hell the house i belong to is different then the leather house other friends of mine are involved in.. Which is different then say how Lady Pact runs her house, which is different then how Others run their house.

Thats why the op is asking.. because the dictionary is insufficient for this answer.


As already stated by others the etymology and history of words are an inherent part of the discussion. Some will see them as per my suggestion, others will see them in terms of ResidentSadist's quote and yet others will see them in other ways.

Everyone to their own style. Unanimity all round in this respect.



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RE: Leather house vs leather family - 10/29/2012 3:02:29 PM   
thexxxxmaster


Posts: 102
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: thexxxxmaster

Not half as painful as having your head up your arse.

It appears you're intimately acquainted with both afflictions.
Yep, you're all over the place on this site.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 20
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