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Forward? - 10/28/2012 8:01:14 PM

xBullx

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This is an honest question. I'm not trying to bash the President, but what is his earnst intentions for America. I'm not Romneys biggest supporter, but I have a sincere fear that no matter how Industrial Romney might be, Obama seems to have every intention of making this country something we may not recognize nor be able too support.

For those of you that fear world war with Romeny, I'm not sure that we shouldn't be concerned with civil war under Obama.

What is it that most of you invision for our country if Obama were to achieve re-election?

Please try to answer sincerely without all the smart-ass comments, name calling and rhetorical talking points...

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Post #: 1

RE: Forward? - 10/28/2012 8:18:26 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Mostly I think anyone who thinks Obama wants to or could change the US into some unrecognizable state has been watching too much FNC.

The President has an established track record and it is as a slightly left of center pragmatic politician. He most certainly is not a socialist or any oter flavor of extreme leftist.

So ultimately I think he'd like to reduce the big money influence on politics and take some steps to reinvigorate the middle class. Nothing even remtely radical.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 2

RE: Forward? - 10/28/2012 8:58:15 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

This is an honest question. I'm not trying to bash the President, but what is his earnst intentions for America. I'm not Romneys biggest supporter, but I have a sincere fear that no matter how Industrial Romney might be, Obama seems to have every intention of making this country something we may not recognize nor be able too support.

For those of you that fear world war with Romeny, I'm not sure that we shouldn't be concerned with civil war under Obama.

What is it that most of you invision for our country if Obama were to achieve re-election?

Please try to answer sincerely without all the smart-ass comments, name calling and rhetorical talking points...

Try stealing the election and you may well see a civil war .......a shooting war....

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 3

RE: Forward? - 10/28/2012 9:06:40 PM

graceadieu

Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline

I see, ideally, a country with:

- A recovered economy
- All Americans having access to quality health care
- Our soldiers out of Iraq
- No war with Iran (unless they start it)
- Good relationships with other countries
- A positive image of the US around the world
- An end to our dependence on foreign oil
- A decreased deficit
- More affordable higher education
- PBS continuing to provide quality pre-K education
- Our progressive tax system continuing to exist
- Continuing to not torture our POWs
- An end to DOMA
- Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell not being reinstated

If some people in this country want to try to secede from the Union over this.... um, I guess they can try? I'm really not too worried about that.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 4

RE: Forward? - 10/28/2012 10:24:51 PM

DaNewAgeViking

Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
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Considering the rabid hysteria being fed by the uber-right propaganda machine, I will not be the least surprised to see some sort of violent reaction to a second Obama term and what looks like modest gains in congress. This would probably be in the form of massive demonstrations, waves of vandalism, possibly a concerted guerilla campaign by the militias, and possibly attempts by Arizona, Idaho, and some parts of the deep south to nullify Washington actions or perhaps even legally secede. If it does happen, it will be entirely due to the Nut-baggers listening to their own hateful spew. We can certainly expect the temperature in Washington to reach a new fever pitch. Whether it leads to a reaction for or against the Radicals in the midterms is hard to say, but I expect things to get far worse before they get better. As for all-out civil war erupting, it could happen - it did before.

(in reply to graceadieu)

Post #: 5

RE: Forward? - 10/28/2012 10:29:34 PM

ResidentSadist

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oops . . . my bad. nvm

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 10/28/2012 10:32:19 PM >

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RE: Forward? - 10/28/2012 10:46:44 PM

FMRFGOPGAL

Posts: 763
Joined: 9/1/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

This is an honest question. I'm not trying to bash the President, but what is his earnst intentions for America. I'm not Romneys biggest supporter, but I have a sincere fear that no matter how Industrial Romney might be, Obama seems to have every intention of making this country something we may not recognize nor be able too support.

For those of you that fear world war with Romeny, I'm not sure that we shouldn't be concerned with civil war under Obama.

What is it that most of you invision for our country if Obama were to achieve re-election?

Please try to answer sincerely without all the smart-ass comments, name calling and rhetorical talking points...

If you don't want smart remarks, why exaggerate so speciously?
Seriously, unless you're indicating the Tea Party is likely to resort to violence, I think claims that there might be a civil war, are alarmist and completely unfounded.

There you have an opinion free of smartass remarks.

And by the way, I don't consider Romney "industrial" at all. He has shrunken industry with each touch of his corporation.

< Message edited by FMRFGOPGAL -- 10/28/2012 10:50:54 PM >

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 7

RE: Forward? - 10/28/2012 11:09:54 PM

epiphiny43

Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
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I'm far more worried about continuing the recent transformation of America the Right Wing is promoting. The acceleration of the concentration of wealth, already more top loaded than a number of South American countries, something unthinkable till recently. And the growing control of politics by large corporations who financially support 'family values' candidates who then vote in the interests of Big Business to the detriment of the working and individual entrepreneur classes. Rome fell as much from the influential/wealthy families who ran the Senate excluding all their lands (The only tax base at the time) from taxes as anything else. Modern computer trading on Wall Street promises to eventually have almost all the wealth of the land held by major institutions and their owners. This is a more potent danger than Muslim extremists! The segments of society that build wealth with manufacturing and services have no hope of competing with this 'economic manipulation at digital electronic speed' Capitalism.
Most of all, Far better Tax and Spend "Liberals" than Don't tax and Do spend 'Conservatives'. Mislabeling at it's most egregious? Look at the talk he doesn't walk from Lyin' Ryan. A typical pork barrel politician for his district but a budget cutting speech maker.
Anyone who passed middle school should be insulted by the arithmetic of the Romney prescription for fiscal responsibility. Defense and Entitlements are by far the majority of the budget. Not touching or even increasing them, not taxing the actual rich and still balancing the budget? WHO believes this? Despite Obama failing to keep all the promises his opponents made for him, his track record in fact is clear and quite within the tradition of centerist American politics. We have no idea which of the many faces Romney showed would be the basis for White House policy. His presentation was continually changed for the audience or any poor reception of the previous speech/recommendation. Romney is for change, changing his policy each week? And as good at revising his history as any politburo Russian or Chinese party functionary.
Look at their history. Obama came in with an agenda (Mostly long term sustainability of the society in basic energy and infrastructure/education and a realistic, fair safety net/health system to maintain a quality of life most of America could enjoy and expect to bequeath to their children.) and has consistently worked for consensus for achieving those goals. Romney was a 'red dog Republican' governor, as liberal as one has been lately, but in campaign wears Tea Party or neo-con costume as easily as any other. He moved to the right better than his opponents during the primaries and now is moving away from those positions faster than his Democrat opponents can target each absurdity. Do we need an escape/makeup artist for chief executive? I'd prefer someone who actually understands the current and long term problems of our country, technological culture and planet and works honestly to solve as many as humanly possible. Despite my many differences with Obama (Medical marijuana for starters!) I can't believe anyone is so blinded by ideology to see how hollow the proposals and criticisms are of the RNC and it's allies are and how dangerous those positions and prescriptions are for any society that intends to continue into the future. And how dishonest so many of the positions are once one examines the past practices of those proponents in recent history. Not saying I like Democrats, but at least they aren't Republicans.

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 10/28/2012 11:15:55 PM >

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 8

RE: Forward? - 10/28/2012 11:18:52 PM

FMRFGOPGAL

Posts: 763
Joined: 9/1/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

This is an honest question. I'm not trying to bash the President, but what is his earnst intentions for America. I'm not Romneys biggest supporter, but I have a sincere fear that no matter how Industrial Romney might be, Obama seems to have every intention of making this country something we may not recognize nor be able too support.

For those of you that fear world war with Romeny, I'm not sure that we shouldn't be concerned with civil war under Obama.

What is it that most of you invision for our country if Obama were to achieve re-election?

Please try to answer sincerely without all the smart-ass comments, name calling and rhetorical talking points...

Try stealing the election and you may well see a civil war .......a shooting war....

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 9

RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 5:22:25 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

This is an honest question. I'm not trying to bash the President, but what is his earnst intentions for America. I'm not Romneys biggest supporter, but I have a sincere fear that no matter how Industrial Romney might be, Obama seems to have every intention of making this country something we may not recognize nor be able too support.

For those of you that fear world war with Romeny, I'm not sure that we shouldn't be concerned with civil war under Obama.

What is it that most of you invision for our country if Obama were to achieve re-election?

Please try to answer sincerely without all the smart-ass comments, name calling and rhetorical talking points...

I could list a bunch of policy things that should and will be accomplished with a second term. However, at the core of his message and what he wants to do is to reunite America. To bring us together as a people. That, though, we have difference our similarities are much greater. To have us stop hating each other. Realizing again that we are all Americans. We are all in this together and we should treat one another a whole lot better than we are today.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 10

RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 5:27:47 AM

DarkSteven

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Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

1. I expect to see the modest economic recovery gain strength. Not due to Obama's policies, but due to timing. If Romney gets elected, the same recovery would happen unless Romney channels Bush and gives more tax cuts.
2. Foreign policy will stay similar. More pressure on Iran to sit down at the table.
3. Withdrawal from Afghanistan, with bloodbath to follow. No more putting it off.

The thing I cannot predict is whether the dysfunction between Congress and the White House will improve. I hope so.

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Post #: 11

RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 5:35:44 AM

Yachtie

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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
Realizing again that we are all Americans.

Some prefer to hyphenate that.

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Post #: 12

RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 5:40:37 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL
Seriously, unless you're indicating the Tea Party is likely to resort to violence, I think claims that there might be a civil war, are alarmist and completely unfounded.

Apart from anything else "civil war" implies a generalised uprising, rather than a few people who've read The Turner Diaries a bit too often holing up in their armed compounds until the BATF burns them out...

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Post #: 13

RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 6:21:47 AM

OttersSwim

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Joined: 9/1/2008
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You know, I have multiple friends who are part of a group of friends who are all die hard republicans. Their biggest fear is that Obama and the Democrats are somehow going to sell America out to the UN as part of a grand plan to disarm Americans and make us more like Europe. That UN troops are going to end up on the streets of America confiscating guns...

This was the same fear they had when Clinton came to office.

I don't know where in the world they get such notions. It is completely whack to me.

Otherwise completely intelligent people, living life with an incredibly negative and fear-based world view. It makes me sad because it is really hard to be around them when a primary part of what binds them together as friends is fear and hate - of government, of fictional welfare queens, of Mexicans doing all the jobs they would never consent to do in a thousand years, of socialism, of Muslims...

As for what I would like to see out of a second Obama administration, graceadieu's list is very much it. I want to see the power shifted from corporations to living and breathing American people. I want to see GBLT Americans enjoy the same rights as every other citizen in this country. I want to see women given full rights of choice over their own bodies and I want Government to support their decisions. I want to see my tax dollars used here to implement healthcare for Americans, further education, build roads and schools, raise pay of teachers and policemen, and generally help America and American citizens - rather than fighting another foreign war over oil and implementing fiscal policies that have not worked since Reagan tried them unsuccessfully.

I believe Obama has at least part of this vision and he is really trying to help. I believe he is a good man with a good vision of America - not a partisan religious battleground like the Republican leadership seem to see it - "It is not enough that I win, but you must lose." attitude. America gets no where with that sort of attitude and the Republican Leadership embodies that right now.

Most of all, I want a Government that will not legislate against who I am at the core of my being. Democrats are at least embracing part of that and writing support for people like me into their platforms. Republicans are not and are actively engaged in legislating against who I, and many of my friends, are as people.

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Post #: 14

RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 6:46:56 AM

atursvcMaam

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question really is, if he is able to do all that he promises, why hasn't he? what has he been waiting for? He probably won't get a favorable congress, and has already worn out the "It was Bush's fault". Calling ia a racist thing isn't going to get much better or worse over the next four years, and threats from either side seem kind of ridiculous. I am not impressed with Mr Obama's presidency. My only reason to vote for Romney, is that he isn't Mr. Obama. A number of my acquantances voted for Mr Obama because "He isn't Bush.

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Post #: 15

RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 7:03:56 AM

OttersSwim

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quote:

"It is not enough that I win, but you must lose."

For me, the answer to your question of why President Obama has not been more successful than he has been lies in the Republican total defiance at all costs attitude. I believe that the Republicans have opposed things the President was trying to do, not because they felt it was bad for America, but because the idea came from a Democrat and they were intent on opposing Obama - even to the detriment of America. Block and blame has been the Republican strategy for the past 4 years - even when the legislation in question might actually be good for America and Americans.

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RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 7:22:38 AM

atursvcMaam

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Half of that (His first 2 years) he had a fillibuster proof congress. He used that to put in place a batch of legislation for a "sign it and we will hammer out the details later" health program that looks to be a very expensive proposition. Yes it helped a few million that could not (and much more quietly a different equal sized segment that did not want to) help themselves. He also ordered an assasination, and bought the country a car company. and invested in several very exciting developers of alternate fuel systems that have had some difficulties in turning green ideas into job creating, environmental issue solving and tax generating profit centers. sorry, I know that profit is a curse word. Most companies would fire someone with this kind of track record. It is my predecessor's fault only works for a while, and while the race thing will work for a bit and garner sympathy, it does not guarantee or even suggest a contract renewal.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

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Post #: 17

RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 7:24:54 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

Half of that (His first 2 years) he had a fillibuster proof congress.

Please wait a little before you rewrite history, those years being so close, your lie is uncovered out of hand, if it is not a knowing lie, then it is certainly an extremely untutored one, and I suspect you cannot credibly cite this extraordinary claim. Since it did not happen.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/29/2012 7:25:41 AM >

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Post #: 18

RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 7:43:17 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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Someone has forgotton that thru illness and death, they most certainly didnt have the 60 vote margin they needed.
And there most certainly were filibusters.
Sheesh, rewriting history should be plausible .....not easily debunked with FACT

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Post #: 19

RE: Forward? - 10/29/2012 7:54:41 AM

Fellow

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The biggest problem I have is the very high probability of financial collapse of some kind. Honestly speaking, all Obama administration does dealing with the ongoing crisis is printing money. How would president Obama react, and how would president Romney react? What kind of measures will be activated?
Obama is illiterate, totally incompetent as economy is concerned. In crisis situation the president must decide. The advisers, handlers are not useful. Romney would be more trustworthy.
Regarding a civil war type scenario, it is impossible. People who fantasize about something like this under-estimate the state security apparatus several orders of magnitude. The measures are already in effect, militias are infiltrated by FBI and disarmed. General looting and apathy is actually much more dangerous and more likely to develop.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 20

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