The day the Ds took over

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Yachtie -> The day the Ds took over (10/31/2012 5:54:59 PM)
Got this in an email. Sounds good[:D] The day the Democrats took over was NOT January 22,2009. It was actually January 3, 2007. A little more than TWO FULL YEARS BEFORE OBAMA WAS SWORN INTO OFFICE AS PRESIDENT. The Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, at the very start of the 110th Congress. The Democrat Party controlled a majority in BOTH chambers 'FOR THE FIRST TIME' since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995. For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is “Bush's fault,” THINK ABOUT THIS: January 3rd, 2007, was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress. At the time: The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77 The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5% The unemployment rate was 4.6% George Bush's economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS of JOB GROWTH REMEMBER THE DAY... January 3rd, 2007,was the day that Barney Frank (D) took over the House Financial Services Committee and, Chris Dodd (D) took over the Senate Banking Committee. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy? BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES! Congress added to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION dollars of TOXIC LOANS on the economy from the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES, created by Barney Frank (D) and Chris Dodd (D)! Bush had asked Congress 17 TIMES starting in 2001, to stop Fannie & Freddie – because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy. And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? BARACK HUSEIN OBAMA! And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie? OBAMA and the Democratically controlled Congress. So when 'SOMEONE' tries to blame Bush, REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007.... THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER! Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress, and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democrat Party. Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the entire budget process for 2008 & 2009. The Republicans regained control of the 'House of Representatives" in 2010. However, the Democrats retained control of the Senate for 2010 and 2011. PLEASE NOTE HERE: The House of Representatives is the chamber responsible for enacting or 'making' the legislation (law). The Senate is the chamber responsible for passing or 'not passing' legislation. Now remember, the Democrats retained control of the Senate for 2010, 2011 and even to this present time in 2012. Annual budgets enacted or made by the Republican controlled House of Representatives for 2010, 2011 and 2012, were repeatedly submitted to the Senate for passage. Each time, those budgets were 'not passed', (they were not even brought to the floor of the Senate for a vote) by Harry Reid, Leader of the Democratically controlled Senate. ARE YOU SEEING A PICTURE HERE? In that first year (2008), they had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush got tough on spending increases. For 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the 2009 budgets. And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete 2009. If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in FIVE YEARS, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets. If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself. In a nutshell, what Obama is saying is "I inherited a deficit that I voted for and then I approved" expanding that deficit four-fold since January 20, 2009.

Hillwilliam -> RE: The day the Ds took over (10/31/2012 6:03:51 PM)
So, the downturn from 2007 to 2009 was the fault of congress but the failure of the economy to reignite is the fault of the president. Sounds reasonable.,[8\|]

dcnovice -> RE: The day the Ds took over (10/31/2012 6:05:22 PM)
FR I started to question a few "facts" in this but then thought, "I get enough spam of my own. I'm not taking on other people's."

slvemike4u -> RE: The day the Ds took over (10/31/2012 6:14:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam So, the downturn from 2007 to 2009 was the fault of congress but the failure of the economy to reignite is the fault of the president. Sounds reasonable.,[8\|] What is so hard to wrap your head around [8\|]

DomKen -> RE: The day the Ds took over (10/31/2012 6:40:23 PM)
It's simple, the GOP never did anything wrong. they didn't gleefully start two wars they had no idea how to finish. They didn't disgrace the memories of every patriot to ever die for this nation by torturing people. They didn't add $5 trillion to the debt. They didn't deregulate the finance industry to the point where it almost destroyed the economy of all the western democracies. You see 2001 to 2007 never happened. The GOP's first period of total control of government since the 1932 was so perfect no one remembers anything from that period. Never mind that the exact same thing happened then as happened the previous time.

slvemike4u -> RE: The day the Ds took over (10/31/2012 6:50:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen It's simple, the GOP never did anything wrong. they didn't gleefully start two wars they had no idea how to finish. They didn't disgrace the memories of every patriot to ever die for this nation by torturing people. They didn't add $5 trillion to the debt. They didn't deregulate the finance industry to the point where it almost destroyed the economy of all the western democracies. You see 2001 to 2007 never happened. The GOP's first period of total control of government since the 1932 was so perfect no one remembers anything from that period. Never mind that the exact same thing happened then as happened the previous time. Quoted cause it was so good it was worth repeating [:)]

FMRFGOPGAL -> RE: The day the Ds took over (10/31/2012 8:15:59 PM)
Where's the part where we have to send it on to ten people, lest our dog meet with a horrible death?

subrob1967 -> RE: The day the Ds took over (10/31/2012 8:40:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Got this in an email. Sounds good[:D] The day the Democrats took over was NOT January 22,2009. It was actually January 3, 2007. A little more than TWO FULL YEARS BEFORE OBAMA WAS SWORN INTO OFFICE AS PRESIDENT. The Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, at the very start of the 110th Congress. The Democrat Party controlled a majority in BOTH chambers 'FOR THE FIRST TIME' since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995. For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is “Bush's fault,” THINK ABOUT THIS: January 3rd, 2007, was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress. At the time: The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77 The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5% The unemployment rate was 4.6% George Bush's economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS of JOB GROWTH REMEMBER THE DAY... January 3rd, 2007,was the day that Barney Frank (D) took over the House Financial Services Committee and, Chris Dodd (D) took over the Senate Banking Committee. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy? BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES! Congress added to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION dollars of TOXIC LOANS on the economy from the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES, created by Barney Frank (D) and Chris Dodd (D)! Bush had asked Congress 17 TIMES starting in 2001, to stop Fannie & Freddie – because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy. And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? BARACK HUSEIN OBAMA! And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie? OBAMA and the Democratically controlled Congress. So when 'SOMEONE' tries to blame Bush, REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007.... THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER! Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress, and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democrat Party. Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the entire budget process for 2008 & 2009. The Republicans regained control of the 'House of Representatives" in 2010. However, the Democrats retained control of the Senate for 2010 and 2011. PLEASE NOTE HERE: The House of Representatives is the chamber responsible for enacting or 'making' the legislation (law). The Senate is the chamber responsible for passing or 'not passing' legislation. Now remember, the Democrats retained control of the Senate for 2010, 2011 and even to this present time in 2012. Annual budgets enacted or made by the Republican controlled House of Representatives for 2010, 2011 and 2012, were repeatedly submitted to the Senate for passage. Each time, those budgets were 'not passed', (they were not even brought to the floor of the Senate for a vote) by Harry Reid, Leader of the Democratically controlled Senate. ARE YOU SEEING A PICTURE HERE? In that first year (2008), they had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush got tough on spending increases. For 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the 2009 budgets. And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete 2009. If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in FIVE YEARS, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets. If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself. In a nutshell, what Obama is saying is "I inherited a deficit that I voted for and then I approved" expanding that deficit four-fold since January 20, 2009. Been saying this for years now, but some people are so set in their ways they still want to blame shit on BOOOSSSHHH. 6 days... Tick tock

joether -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 1:40:41 AM)
What I like about this thread, is just how far the conservatives will go to ignore reality, facts, and US History. Its like they view their 'minority' status as being steam-rolled over for two years before the Republicans re-took the House of Representatives. One only has to look at how often, and indeed, how creative, Republicans in both chambers got to stall and stop any bill making its way from creation to signing on the President's desk. The Affordable Care Act is a great example. Republicans tried....EVERYTHING....and then some to get that bill to be destroyed. They created total lies and passed them off as fact at every chance they could. The reason the ACA is what it is, and NOT the President's original version, is largely due to Republicans. I wonder how many conservatives actually took the time to read the President's version before doing anything and everything they could to stop/undermine it? Less then 0.0001%. In fact, the number that actually read the bill is...LESS....the total number of cases in which voter fraud took place....ANYWHERE....in the USA.....SINCE....the millennium started! There are a host of moments to which Republicans did everything they could on many other bills. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is one they all voted against it based on their 'principles'. But tried to secretly take money for their states/disctricts. Including Mr. Paul Ryan. Hey, isn't Mr. Ryan running for public office this year? Yeah, yeah, but its not Congress. Someone help me out here.... Now the good stuff. Much of the events that starting taking place in 2007, had their creation back during 2000-2006. The Republican Congress turned a $330 Billion surplus on the budget and within so many years, turned it into a $1.2 Trillion deficit. Along with removing regulations across the board: financial sector, housing rules, equipment regulations, etc. We can all remember those ads on TV for "...Even if you have no credit, bad credit or flimsy credit...YOU CAN GET A HOUSING LOAN!", right? Take a wild guess which political party allowed...THAT....to happen? We all know what soon followed. And there was regulations stating how equipment related to oil rig operations were NEVER to be exceeded. Well, cus the regulation wasnt there, the BP Oil Spill in the Gulf of Mexico soon followed. Plus, each year, healthcare costs were going up (at least in the surrounding states to mine) by double digit percentages. Republicans did anything and everything to keep any sort of cap, limit, or law disallowing the trend from taking place. Heck, they had FOUR YEARS to create their own national health care law. They got to busy trying to make money for the richest 1% in American to 'Give a Flying Fark' about anyone else....below....the millionaire mark. I can keep going on this Yachtie. The amount of Bull Droppings on the Republican side are considerably higher than the Democrat side. Oh, I can admit Democrats have had their share of screw ups and problems. But its....NOTHING....compare to the depth, length, and size Republicans have unleashed on this country in the last three presidential terms. I have to give President Obama credit. He has had to deal with alot of total crap from Republicans since coming to office. Which party failed to create a budget bill that would pass....BOTH....the House and Senate in August of 2011? That would be the Republican House, Yachtie. I know this will come as a shocker, but just because the House Republicans voted on a bill, doesnt make it law. It STILL has to go through and be approved on by the Demcoratic controlled Senate. This is 'Civics 101', and it just stuns me that conservatives are really....THIS STUPID....on civics 101. It is surprising that most conservatives do not know the concept of a 'compromise', even though that's a foundational concept for the USA. That two sides want something, they must agree to a set of terms wereby both sides get something they want. In '2nd grader language' (cus some of you conservatives really are....slow....): You want something I sell. I set a price. If you want it, you'll give me the money for the thing you want. I then give you the thing you want. Your upset that it costed you money, which is something you want too! I want money and keep the thing that you want as well....BUT....I realize (unlike 99.999% of conservatives these days), that to get money, I would have to give you the something that you want. That is what a compromise is defined in '2nd grader language'. Yeah, I have to dumb it down to simple terms, cus I really have no confidence that conservatives can handle 'higher brain functions'. Finally, if you and all the other conservatives were to hold the people you vote into office to twice the level accountibility and responsibility as you slam the President and Democrats on an hourly basis....we'd have better goverment almost over night!

subrob1967 -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 1:51:53 AM)
6 days... Tick tock Joe, tick tock.

leonine -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 2:04:00 AM)
The funny thing about this spamlet is that it's apparently addressed to people who are so dumb, or with such a goldfish memory span, they need to be told who was in the House before '09. Presumably, that's the audience who also can't remember what really happened back then and will accept it all without checking. This isn't intended to convince anyone, it's to make the faithful feel secure in the faith, and to give them what Romney's scriptwriters called "zingers" to impress their buddies at the bar.

Politesub53 -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 4:36:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 6 days... Tick tock Joe, tick tock. quote: Joether; Much of the events that starting taking place in 2007, had their creation back during 2000-2006. I have a broken clock too. It seems to be right twice a day but its all an illusuion Rob. Question for the class...... Why did the economy start to tank in 2007 ? "Anyone...... Rob, Yachtie ?" Okay then, I best tell you myself. Wall Street was falling over itself to lend money. It was then insuring these loans as a hedge, using Credit Default Swaps. These were arranged in towers of debt. The ground floor being most risky, the top floor being least risky. Wall Street, then thought of a way to make more money. To take all the BBB rated debts on the ground floor of each building, parcel them up as new loans and call these Credit Debt Obligations. Then persuade Moodys and S & P to rate these BBB debts (Most risky) into triple A (least risky) Still with me kids, Okay I will continue. Leading up to 2005, these CDOs were making billions for Wall Street. Greenspan had kept the interest rate absurdly low. Wall Street needed new dupes to land cash to. Home Loan Companies filled the gap by lending to people with poor, or even no, credit ratings. In some cases giving loans away with no financial checks. They had also come up with yet another money making wheeze, lend people loans at a "teaser" rate. With the floating rate kicking in in two years time.....yes you got it......2007. So 2007 saw the start of massive defaulting on loans. It was 2008 before the non paynet of loans caused the banking system to be in a state of collapse. Banks had seen this comming in 2005 and started buying back CDOs, therefore trying to play both sides of the fence. When Obama took over in 2009, the damage was done, the system was in a state of collapse and had to be proped up by the Treasury. Before anyone shouts about "No one is too big to fail" it wasnt the Banks failing, Per se, it was the whole house of cards. Each bank that failed owed to other banks, pull out one card and the whole lot would have tumbled. Joether got it right earlier " Much of the events that starting taking place in 2007, had their creation back during 2000-2006."

Yachtie -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 6:42:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Question for the class...... Why did the economy start to tank in 2007 ? "Anyone...... Rob, Yachtie ?" I'll add to what PS said, and I agree with most all he said, excepting "had to be proped up by the Treasury" (that's another topic) Why? I see that in two parts. First, way to many people were overextended in the credit area (over leveraging). There was way to much easy credit. For instance, many were using their increasing home equity as an ATM. No problem as long as the bubble was kept inflated and kept expanding. Second, the MBS (mortgage based securities) derivatives market was a multi-trillion sleeper and MERS was in the background. Flipping properties was the name of the game for many. (prices kept rising; the moon was the goal) All that had to happen was for one sector of the economy, namely those who were extended credit (previously could not qualify), instituted under the Community Reinvestment Act under Cater which led to the housing bubble, to hiccup. (I see a similarity to the Tulip mania and the South Seas bubble.) Yes, most of the mania was 2000-2006 but the origins which allowed such to happen were earlier. Joether is wrong that "had their creation back during 2000-2006". Glass-Steagall was removed in 1999 (see Graham-Leach-Bliley Act). The housing bubble burst leaving an open festering wound. Foreclosures brought MERS front and center which had a twofold ramification. First were the banks. Underwater mortgages nailed their balance sheets and MERS began to bring established filing practices into conflict with the new and not so improved MERS process. Second, Wall Street got nailed as the MBS derivatives market was found wanting. This problem extended overseas too. Losses mounted, at least on paper. Many of the (now underwater) properties in the derivatives baskets are MERS connected. This has so far been swept under the rug but I expect it to again rear its head at some point after the election. It's now a cascading effect with Uncle Sam and The FED stepping in trying to stem the hemorrhaging and if possible re-inflate the bubble. QEinfinity. The markets are being prevented from clearing. There will be no recovery till either that happens or the economy grows to absorb the mal-investment which I do not see happening for a variety of reasons. Now some may think I'm wanting to point partisan fingers. Absolutely not. The chips fall where they may. What amazes me is how much importance people put on finger pointing. "It has to be the other guy!" I don't say Joether is wrong because I wish to point fingers at Carter or Clinton, I say it because he is. 2000-2006 were symptoms. Carter and Clinton (as markers for those administrations), and to be real fair the Congress at those times, thought they were doing right (benefit of the doubt). What they did not anticipate were the unintended consequences of their actions.

papassion -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 12:37:58 PM)
And why were banks lending money to anyone who could see lightning and hear thunder? It was the Democrat's dream that EVERYONE should own a house! Started with Carter. Clinton threatened law suits on banks that were "too cautious" in their loan payback requirements. What the hell, Freddie and Fannie would buy the loan if it went bad! Barney Frank assured everybody that freddie and Fannie were doing just fine! Bush twice tried to get them audited. We now know how "fine" Freddie and Fannie are! Wait folks, the other shoe is about to drop on Freddie and Fannie's toxic mortgage fiasco. The root cause of the finiancial crisis. the Democrat dream of everyone owning a house! The road to ruin is paved with good intentions.

subrob1967 -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 12:41:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion And why were banks lending money to anyone who could see lightning and hear thunder? It was the Democrat's dream that EVERYONE should own a house! Started with Carter. Clinton threatened law suits on banks that were "too cautious" in their loan payback requirements. What the hell, Freddie and Fannie would buy the loan if it went bad! Barney Frank assured everybody that freddie and Fannie were doing just fine! Bush twice tried to get them audited. We now know how "fine" Freddie and Fannie are! Wait folks, the other shoe is about to drop on Freddie and Fannie's toxic mortgage fiasco. The root cause of the finiancial crisis. the Democrat dream of everyone owning a house! The road to ruin is paved with good intentions. Sadly our progressive friends aren't interested in the truth because it just doesn't feel right not to blame someone else for the mess they made.

Politesub53 -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 12:43:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion And why were banks lending money to anyone who could see lightning and hear thunder? It was the Democrat's dream that EVERYONE should own a house! Started with Carter. Clinton threatened law suits on banks that were "too cautious" in their loan payback requirements. What the hell, Freddie and Fannie would buy the loan if it went bad! Barney Frank assured everybody that freddie and Fannie were doing just fine! Bush twice tried to get them audited. We now know how "fine" Freddie and Fannie are! Wait folks, the other shoe is about to drop on Freddie and Fannie's toxic mortgage fiasco. The root cause of the finiancial crisis. the Democrat dream of everyone owning a house! The road to ruin is paved with good intentions. Absolute nonsense, or to put it another way, bullshit. The banks were lending money hand over first because "THEY WERE MAKING MONEY FROM THE LOANS" Each time a householder found he couldnt keep up the payments once the teaser rates stopped, the banks just said "BORROW SOME MORE" new loan, new teaser rate, problem just pushed two years down the line.

Politesub53 -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 12:46:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: papassion And why were banks lending money to anyone who could see lightning and hear thunder? It was the Democrat's dream that EVERYONE should own a house! Started with Carter. Clinton threatened law suits on banks that were "too cautious" in their loan payback requirements. What the hell, Freddie and Fannie would buy the loan if it went bad! Barney Frank assured everybody that freddie and Fannie were doing just fine! Bush twice tried to get them audited. We now know how "fine" Freddie and Fannie are! Wait folks, the other shoe is about to drop on Freddie and Fannie's toxic mortgage fiasco. The root cause of the finiancial crisis. the Democrat dream of everyone owning a house! The road to ruin is paved with good intentions. Sadly our progressive friends aren't interested in the truth because it just doesn't feel right not to blame someone else for the mess they made. Sadly you couldnt spot the truth if it bit you on the arse. Try reading a book on the subject, there are plenty of good ones about. "The Big Short" by the same guy who wrote "Liars Poker" is a good starting point.

Politesub53 -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 12:56:50 PM)
Yachtie.....Good post. My reason for suggesting the Treasury had to prop up the banks is because no one, even the banks, didnt know the size of the debts they held. This is because many were held off of the books. For example, AIG, as a firm, was doing okay, but ended up almost bankrupt due to the CDOs they held. If one major bank was allowed to fail, they all would, due to the amounts they all owed each other. A CDO is a Collateralised Debt Obligation, not a Credid Debt Obligation which I inadvertently called it earlier.

Yachtie -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 1:45:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Yachtie.....Good post. My reason for suggesting the Treasury had to prop up the banks is because no one, even the banks, didnt know the size of the debts they held. This is because many were held off of the books. For example, AIG, as a firm, was doing okay, but ended up almost bankrupt due to the CDOs they held. If one major bank was allowed to fail, they all would, due to the amounts they all owed each other. A CDO is a Collateralised Debt Obligation, not a Credid Debt Obligation which I inadvertently called it earlier. Initially FDIC could ~cover the 4 or 5 big boys. The smaller regional banks / credit unions were ok. Problem was and still is, the BIG BOYS are wired into Congress and the FED (to big to fail). (Lehman Bros and later MF Global have shown their hands.) As long as the FED props up the banks there shall be no recovery. The markets have to clear and that includes the banks. There is a great danger here also. Understanding the nature of the Great Depression and ultimately what got us out, being post-WWII rebuilding of Europe and its economic impact at home* (Not FDR), and as the middle class is financially tapped out at present economic activity wise, government has one resource left that most governments, in this situation, have historically utilized. The Bernanke has shot his last bullet with QEinfinity. Sure, the FED could monetize more but that is just more QE. So what's left? War? * The broken window fallacy is correct within the scope it is meant to be understood. Europe found out it's absolutely true. But the US, being akin to the unharmed 'glazier in the next town over', made out. Nicely too.

DomKen -> RE: The day the Ds took over (11/1/2012 2:47:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion And why were banks lending money to anyone who could see lightning and hear thunder? It was the Democrat's dream that EVERYONE should own a house! Started with Carter. Clinton threatened law suits on banks that were "too cautious" in their loan payback requirements. What the hell, Freddie and Fannie would buy the loan if it went bad! Barney Frank assured everybody that freddie and Fannie were doing just fine! Bush twice tried to get them audited. We now know how "fine" Freddie and Fannie are! Wait folks, the other shoe is about to drop on Freddie and Fannie's toxic mortgage fiasco. The root cause of the finiancial crisis. the Democrat dream of everyone owning a house! The road to ruin is paved with good intentions. So a bunch of mortgages issues in the 70's and 90's all went belly up in 2008? Do you really expect us to believe that? And do you really expect us to believe that those mortgages were all bundled into various bonds and securities issued in the 2000's? Just how fucking stupid do you think we are?

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