RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (Full Version)

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stellauk -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 11:00:55 AM)

I just find it telling that people are bickering over how people are responding to the circumstances they find themselves in.

Seven years ago almost to the day I started a period of street homelessness in Warsaw with knee deep snow and temperatures as low as minus 25 degrees. I didn't have a dollar to my name.

I spent four weeks in that situation before I managed to leave to return to the UK. The fact that seven years later today I'm posting this is down to a combination of my own survival instincts, kindness from strangers and a bit of luck.

Does it really matter how people are responding, as long as they are and they can both survive and recover from the situation?




tj444 -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 11:05:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
You can't "stock up" on gas.  You can fill your tank, maybe a few containers, and that's it.

just a comment about "gas".. if you are in an area that has the legal requirement of 10%, 15% or more ethanol in yer gas.. that shite is killer in certain older engines and even worse for small machines like gas mowers or (I expect) generators too.. This whole ethanol thing is something that is killing my present vehicle and you simply can not buy gas here that is 100% gas.. so you have to use additives to counteract the dam ethanol.. especially if the gas is gonna sit for a while (as it tends to in a container or small machine)..
[sm=gaah.gif]

eta- I wonder how many people that have a generator for emergencies find that their generator doesnt work when they need it due to problems with ethanol in their gas..

as Briggs & Stratton's (BGG) Web site warns, "Ethanol-blended gasoline can attract moisture, which leads to separation and formation of acids during storage. Acidic gasoline can damage the fuel system of an engine while in storage. B&S strongly recommends removing ethanol-blended fuels from engine during storage."
The Great Ethanol Scam http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/may2009/bw20090514_058678.htm




graceadieu -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 11:36:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomMeinCT

When you hear that people are running out of water, it's not that they didn't stock up, but they most likely didn't anticipate how much water they needed, particularly for flushing toilets when there is no water pressure in buildings served by city water. Or they thought about drinking water, but didn't calculate the additional gallons to boil water for washing or making pasta (if they had a gas stove).

And in some cases, there just wasn't enough food to stock up on, even a couple of days before the storm. Here's the bread aisle in my town of 20,000 grocery store 2 days before the storm (there were no deliveries to restock the entire weekend, as there normally would have been). In some places, there may not have been enough food or water for people to stock up on more than they were able. The local warehouse store still doesn't have a single case of water in stock.


Those are good points. I know I was only thinking about drinking and hand-washing, so we got 4 gallons. Which we were lucky to get - I had to go to 3 different shops to even get that, because I waited till Sunday. If the storm had taken a left at DC and gone further inland instead of going up the coast, we might've been in trouble. If I lived on the coast I'm sure I would've gotten more, but I don't really know how much water you need for 2 weeks.




Edwynn -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 12:05:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat

i don't think you're a jerk, i just didn't appreciate the generalities.


I don't usually appreciate generalities either, which is why I despise politics and Hollywood. But if you look into the lower right corner of my post that caused you concern, you would see that I was responding to a particular poster, and, as would be expected in such event, whatever 'snark,' generalities, etc., might have been conveyed should be considered as directed towards the poster I was responding to.



Good to meet, any regards.






Moonhead -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 12:12:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
You can't "stock up" on gas.  You can fill your tank, maybe a few containers, and that's it.

just a comment about "gas".. if you are in an area that has the legal requirement of 10%, 15% or more ethanol in yer gas.. that shite is killer in certain older engines and even worse for small machines like gas mowers or (I expect) generators too.. This whole ethanol thing is something that is killing my present vehicle and you simply can not buy gas here that is 100% gas.. so you have to use additives to counteract the dam ethanol.. especially if the gas is gonna sit for a while (as it tends to in a container or small machine)..
[sm=gaah.gif]

eta- I wonder how many people that have a generator for emergencies find that their generator doesnt work when they need it due to problems with ethanol in their gas..

as Briggs & Stratton's (BGG) Web site warns, "Ethanol-blended gasoline can attract moisture, which leads to separation and formation of acids during storage. Acidic gasoline can damage the fuel system of an engine while in storage. B&S strongly recommends removing ethanol-blended fuels from engine during storage."
The Great Ethanol Scam http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/may2009/bw20090514_058678.htm


One thing that's worth remembering about stockpiling petrol, is that it can be downright dangerous to have a load of it in the house: some stupid type set herself on fire decanting petrol from a drum into a jerrycan in a kitchen with a lit aga during the last fit of media hysteria inspired panic buying over here...




stef -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 12:14:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

If I lived on the coast I'm sure I would've gotten more, but I don't really know how much water you need for 2 weeks.

The rule of thumb is one gallon of water per person per day.




Edwynn -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 12:43:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

I just find it telling that people are bickering over how people are responding to the circumstances they find themselves in.

Seven years ago almost to the day I started a period of street homelessness in Warsaw with knee deep snow and temperatures as low as minus 25 degrees. I didn't have a dollar to my name.

I spent four weeks in that situation before I managed to leave to return to the UK. The fact that seven years later today I'm posting this is down to a combination of my own survival instincts, kindness from strangers and a bit of luck.

Does it really matter how people are responding, as long as they are and they can both survive and recover from the situation?



I hear you.

The more I learn about other countries, the more I learn that along with having their own particular sense of humour, every region or society seems to have their own sense of 'drama.'

When hurricane Hugo struck, that particular hurricane was significant in that it was still at near full force more than 250 miles inland, so not a merely coastal region event, as usually should be the case.

Thirty- to one hundred and thirty-year old oak trees littered the street (Charlotte, NC, USA), everywhere. Likewise were 400-800 lb. transformers on the streets, five or six every block. No one could drive to get to the main roads for a week, if that lucky. I remember looking at the devestation and being amazed that there was only one death resulting from it, but people in the neighborhood were saying; "oh, this is so terrible, this is so terrible!" But no one was actually suffering, and nobody (but one, killed instantly, no suffering) died. I was amazed at the miracle, and all (seemingly) everybody else could do was whine and complain.

I don't even remember what I did to get through it because it was of such little consequence less than a year later, even gone by three months after the fact, certainly not worthy of memory retention now. All my nieces remember about it is me posing them aside or on top of these huge transformers and traffic lights that littered the streets and parking lots, to shoot some pictures.

Keep in mind that US news, whatever supposed political 'slant,' is all about the 'drama!,' so of course they are going to send their ferrets to sniff out the most self-perceived 'disaffected.'

Yes, a storm that stretched for over 1,000 miles, and the reporters found all the people that, on just the day after, were saying, "Why aren't they here yet? Where are they? They told us they were coming!", etc.

I know that looks pathetic, and it actually is, but all news 'reporting' is heavily edited, starting with the choice of what and whom to report and quote.


A $2.00 to $15 book on edible weeds is more valuable than a $1,750/troy ounce of gold at times like these.

But don't tell anybody that. I actually do go with the Darwinistic mantra, when it really matters.






DomMeinCT -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 12:57:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomMeinCT

When you hear that people are running out of water, it's not that they didn't stock up, but they most likely didn't anticipate how much water they needed, particularly for flushing toilets when there is no water pressure in buildings served by city water. Or they thought about drinking water, but didn't calculate the additional gallons to boil water for washing or making pasta (if they had a gas stove).

And in some cases, there just wasn't enough food to stock up on, even a couple of days before the storm. Here's the bread aisle in my town of 20,000 grocery store 2 days before the storm (there were no deliveries to restock the entire weekend, as there normally would have been). In some places, there may not have been enough food or water for people to stock up on more than they were able. The local warehouse store still doesn't have a single case of water in stock.


Those are good points. I know I was only thinking about drinking and hand-washing, so we got 4 gallons. Which we were lucky to get - I had to go to 3 different shops to even get that, because I waited till Sunday. If the storm had taken a left at DC and gone further inland instead of going up the coast, we might've been in trouble. If I lived on the coast I'm sure I would've gotten more, but I don't really know how much water you need for 2 weeks.


We're 30 miles inland and still got pummelled.




DomMeinCT -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 1:00:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

If I lived on the coast I'm sure I would've gotten more, but I don't really know how much water you need for 2 weeks.

The rule of thumb is one gallon of water per person per day.


That's for drinking water, but if you had to flush toilets and wash basic dishes (assuming you had gas for cooking), my experience is that 5 gallons per person is what you need. It takes 2-3 gallons of water to flush a toilet.




dcnovice -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 1:04:55 PM)

quote:

We're 30 miles inland and still got pummelled.

Sorry to hear that! I hope things are looking up.

I have a brother in Ohio, and he lost power too.




stef -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 1:11:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomMeinCT

That's for drinking water, but if you had to flush toilets and wash basic dishes (assuming you had gas for cooking), my experience is that 5 gallons per person is what you need. It takes 2-3 gallons of water to flush a toilet.

You don't use your potable water to flush toilets. If you can't live without flush toilets during a disaster, set up a rain barrel or fill your tub and use that water.




tazzygirl -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 1:41:00 PM)

Thats what we used it for. Animal water, toilets and washing up.




vincentML -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 2:14:38 PM)

quote:

One thing that's worth remembering about stockpiling petrol, is that it can be downright dangerous to have a load of it in the house: some stupid type set herself on fire decanting petrol from a drum into a jerrycan in a kitchen with a lit aga during the last fit of media hysteria inspired panic buying over here...

Which raises the question of whether having a home generator is a useful strategy (unless it is needed to assure power for a medical device) Relatives in Sandy's path tell me they had to refill their petrol supplies several times for their generators, and that is what contributed to the long lines at the fill-up stations. So, are they really necessary?




tazzygirl -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 2:16:46 PM)

Dry ice would have been cheaper.




Yachtie -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 2:31:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

One thing that's worth remembering about stockpiling petrol, is that it can be downright dangerous to have a load of it in the house: some stupid type set herself on fire decanting petrol from a drum into a jerrycan in a kitchen with a lit aga during the last fit of media hysteria inspired panic buying over here...

Which raises the question of whether having a home generator is a useful strategy (unless it is needed to assure power for a medical device) Relatives in Sandy's path tell me they had to refill their petrol supplies several times for their generators, and that is what contributed to the long lines at the fill-up stations. So, are they really necessary?



Last hurricane that struck here we lost power for a few days. 2000watt gen and 10 gal gas (non-ethanol). Also had what was in the car if needed. Was great. Just used the gen when needed. As far as decanting near an open flame in a kitchen... well, can you fix stupid?




Aswad -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 2:53:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

As far as decanting near an open flame in a kitchen... well, can you fix stupid?


Left alone, stupidity is generally self-limiting, even self-solving.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




tj444 -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 3:07:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

One thing that's worth remembering about stockpiling petrol, is that it can be downright dangerous to have a load of it in the house: some stupid type set herself on fire decanting petrol from a drum into a jerrycan in a kitchen with a lit aga during the last fit of media hysteria inspired panic buying over here...

Which raises the question of whether having a home generator is a useful strategy (unless it is needed to assure power for a medical device) Relatives in Sandy's path tell me they had to refill their petrol supplies several times for their generators, and that is what contributed to the long lines at the fill-up stations. So, are they really necessary?

if you have a freezer full of food, electric heat & cooking.. (for me, also my computer).. yes i think so... losing a freezer full of food can be expensive.. but I think they recommend you keep your generator outside (not even in the garage either, i believe).. It can be put into a strong metal cage attached to a hefty concrete base to prevent it from being stolen..

I dont know if solar power might be a reasonable alternative, it might be or maybe not, depending on the system.. and there is not much sun in a storm..




Hillwilliam -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 3:26:21 PM)

Re generators. I had one as part of my hurricane supplies when I was in miami.

Now, it's part of the blizzard supplies.
Here is the key. Dont use your generator 24/7. Fire it up for a coupla hours to power the fridge and freezer and if you have to, a load of laundry and watch TV igf you want during that time. Then, turn the fucking thing OFF.

You don't need power 24/7 in an emergency. The last big snowstorm I had here with loss of power, 5 gallons of gas lasted 4 days.




cloudboy -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 3:28:35 PM)

There was good op-ed in the NYT, "The Mayor's Barrier," that criticized Bloomberg. He's been very concerned about "climate change" and the risks to NYC, but he made no investments to protect the city from the inevitable floods that would result. Such investments would be very expensive, and would require him to put his money where his mouth is regarding the threat.

As a parallel example, the author talked about how Providence RI had been devastated by two hurricanes, so back in the 1960s the city invested $15M and hired the Army Corps of Engineers to develop storm surge protection measures. Since that time, the city has not suffered any serious or flood related damages. NYC, on the other hand, has made no such investments. Rather, it just developed evacuation plans.

Another poster here already mocked Bloomberg citing how he mouths off about climate change, yet did nothing to protect NYC.

The lack of investment in NYC and other areas of the USA for natural disaster protections -- reflects our warped priorities as a nation. We spend $600B+ a year on the military instead of investing that money here at home on infrastructure and other areas vital to both our safety and national economy. Why? Its the only area of GOV that Republicans are zealous about funding. Nixon wouldn't end the Vietnam WAR. Reagan engaged in a huge military buildup during peacetime while the USSR was about to implode, and GWB simply went hog-wild on defense and national security spending.

Republicans routinely painted Carter and Clinton as "weak" on defense.

Romney --- he wants to continue this tradition of Guns over Butter.




Aswad -> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness (11/3/2012 6:06:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Here is the key. Dont use your generator 24/7.


Consider getting a UPS. The better line interactive types can be connected all the time, while even the cheap offline types can be used to store energy that you can use to run the chargers, radios and so forth without needing to power up the generator (which would be a waste).

IWYW,
— Aswad.




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