RE: So climate change is a Joke?

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subrob1967 -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/2/2012 8:59:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Kinda like you're attacking Romney? Hypocrite... Obama's had four fucking years to lower the sea, why hasn't he done it Ken? Think about that for a minute. How do you lower the sea? You could bail it with a bucket, I suppose.[8\|] The only other choices I can think of are evaporation or turn it back into glaciers. Evaporation would require input of an enormous amount of heat energy. More global warming. Glaciation would require an extreme temperature drop. Transfering heat energy away. Freezing the earth. Two unlikely feats even for Super Prez. Grab a bucket, rob.[:)] Perhaps with the enthusiasm from Obama's loins. Seeing how I'm smart enough not to live on the coast I'll leave the bailing to you progressives. Again, the climate is changing, and has been changing since the day the Earth was formed. It takes a pretty dense kind of person to think that the climate just started changing around 1750 or so, when we started industrializing.

PeonForHer -> RE: climate change is a hoax, not a joke (11/2/2012 9:01:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElChupa Then end started when politics infiltrated science. The scientific method ENCOURAGES doubters and people who test the hypothesis. Notice how the hard left attacks violently any questioning of global warming? In science there is no 100% sure crap that the hard left peddle with global warming or whatever they call it today. Climate is CYCLICAL. And by the way, follow the money. There are asshats like algore who made hundreds of millions on this hoax. Carbon credits? are you kidding me? Just because you are delusional, doesn't mean the rest of us have to be. Politics has always imbued science and all but a tiny fraction of the money has been behind the deniers for decades, you unbelievable cretin. Jesus Christ, what would it take to get this through your skull, a grenade?

Kirata -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/2/2012 9:04:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen How many consecutive years of 'once a century' storms hitting the Atlantic coast will it take before you guys admit there is a problem that must be dealt with? Glad to see you're still wearing the cloth. Faithfulness is a virtue. Downward trends in the frequency of intense Atlantic hurricanes during the past five decades (1996) There is concern that the enhanced greenhouse effect may be affecting extreme weather events such as tropical cyclones... Despite 1995's activity, a long-term (five decade) downward trend continues to be evident primarily in the frequency of intense hurricanes. In addition, the mean maximum intensity (i.e., averaged over all cyclones in a season) has decreased, while the maximum intensity attained by the strongest hurricane each year has not shown a significant change. Recent historically low global tropical cyclone activity (2011) Tropical cyclone accumulated cyclone energy (ACE) has exhibited strikingly large global interannual variability during the past 40-years. In the pentad since 2006, Northern Hemisphere and global tropical cyclone ACE has decreased dramatically to the lowest levels since the late 1970s. Additionally, the global frequency of tropical cyclones has reached a historical low. Looking at a longer time-scale, a review of Lane, Donnelly, Woodruff and Hawkes (Marine Geology, 2011) comments: It is instructive to note that over the past century and a half of ever-increasing fossil fuel utilization and atmospheric CO2 buildup, the frequency of the most intense category of hurricanes in the Northeastern Gulf of Mexico has been lower than it was over the prior five millennia... Bless you for your fidelity. K.

PunisherNOLA -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/2/2012 9:05:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Well if that campaign rally was post Sandy then it's not funny. Otherwise it's funny, the rally that is not the idiotic spin. I know some think Sandy was a result or was more severe as a result of global warming but keep in mind the 1950's was a horrible decade of hurricanes with high sea levels, storm surges, widespread destruction and all the rest of it. We just didn't have Algore back then. Sandy was a very unusual storm. First the pressure at its eye was the lowest ever measured in a storm north of Cape Hateras. Second it was a very late storm, the hurricane season is considered over November 1st because in the old days there wasn't enough energy in the northern tropics to create one that late in the year. Third was that unusual left turn it took to make landfall, caused by a high pressure area over Greenland that may have been strengthened by the amount of open water in the Arctic. All 3 of those factors are indicative of a warmer atmosphere and ocean with more energy available to feed a storm. We didn't have any of that in the 50's. Actually Hurricane Hazel in 1954 was a storm that met with and merged with a weather front, and the Hurricane season lasts until the end of November, but it's rare that they form this late in the season. Sandy was unusual in more ways than that, really. The high in Eastern Canada, along with the SE moving winter storm is only half of the picture. The other half involves the unusual strength of the Negative Phase of the North Atlantic Oscillation which caused the Azore High to be positioned more notherly and the Iclandic Low to be weaker than usual during a negative NAO phase, causing that higher pressure in Greenland. This effectively blocked the storm from taking the more traditional eastern turn into the open Atlantic. With nowhere else to go, it took a hard left that was actually pretty accurately predicted by the NOAA while tracking the storm.

DomKen -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/2/2012 9:32:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen How many consecutive years of 'once a century' storms hitting the Atlantic coast will it take before you guys admit there is a problem that must be dealt with? Glad to see you're still wearing the cloth. Faithfulness is a virtue. Glad to see you're still pitching for the denialists. It's sort of endearing, do you own stock in Exxon or something?

lovmuffin -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/2/2012 11:57:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen How many consecutive years of 'once a century' storms hitting the Atlantic coast will it take before you guys admit there is a problem that must be dealt with? Glad to see you're still wearing the cloth. Faithfulness is a virtue. Glad to see you're still pitching for the denialists. It's sort of endearing, do you own stock in Exxon or something? It seems to me, those who are not in denial are in denial.

JanahX -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/3/2012 12:06:14 AM)
Fast reply - ever wish the earth would just get pummled by a big ol asteroid? Christ on a crutch - Rob would still be saying its Obamas fault. Oh wait a minute... We'd all be dead. NM.

ToyOfRhamnusia -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/3/2012 1:27:24 AM)
This whole discussion is bogus. Climate change IS reality - everyone can go see what has happened to the ice in the north, as well as to all mountain glaciers on the globe - less ice now than 100 years ago, 50 years ago, and 20 years ago. It could be because of warmer weather or because or less snow, but either is CLIMATE CHANGE. Yes, climate change is the norm. There has never been a time on this planet with no climate change... The real question is: are "we" (= those super-humans who control what our decisions are going to be) CAUSING it, or at least a significant fraction of it? This brings carbon dioxide to the table. It was a damned good idea - well suited to trick people into accepting carbon taxes, world government, and permanent slavery! Sure, carbon dioxide CAN cause climate chance. It IS a "greenhouse gas" that will cause warming of the planet. And it is a fact that we have about doubled the atmosphere's concentration of it since we started burning fossil fuels. Or since we started chopping down our forests, which are the main CONSUMERS of carbon dioxide - whichever way you want to see it. Oh, so we have a culprit! Let's then go straight to prosecution! Proof? Doesn't matter - we have enough IMPORTANT people supporting this idea, so we don't need prof.... So, we can decide on this through a vote! Fuck the logic and the science - we just go with those we like! Good, because proof will show that carbon dioxide can account for a maximum of 3-5 % of the total temperature increase we have been able to observe, subject to which sources we count on for measuring that temperature increase. The numbers are simple, and even layfolks should be able to understand the simple math behind this: Let's assume that this 200 ppm increase in carbon dioxide causes the climate change we can observe. Let's go with the conservative figures saying that we have had a 1 degree average increase over the last 10 years. (Most scientists agree that it is higher, at least in many locations, but let's remain conservative and not try to exaggerate anything...) So, that was presumably caused by a 200 ppm increase. This means that 200 ppm extra is causing a 1 degree increase, right? (Please note that, if we believe the increase has been greater, then it is simple to do the math once again, and you will easily see what effect that will have...) Let's see if this is possible. Before plants existed on earth, there was no oxygen in the atmosphere. All the 20% oxygen we currently enjoy as the very foundation of animal life was generated by plants, by turning the then 20% carbon dioxide into carbon (= organic material) and free oxygen, through the well-known photosynthesis everyone should have learned about in school. Pay attention to the numbers now: 20% carbon dioxide in the atmosphere - that's what we had back then. Today we have a little less than 400 ppm = 0.0400% - which is an increase over the last 150 years from 200 ppm. Question: what would the increase be if that 200 ppm were 20% = 200,000 ppm instead? In essence, we increase the carbon dioxide concentration 1,000 times... You will notice that this is the situation we had before plant life on Earth... We should then expect a temperature increase of something like a 1,000 times also, shouldn't we? I mean, if the original claim were correct, then this WOULD be true... Bad news for the theory, folks: this would imply that the Earth's temperature was so hot on the surface that iron would be glowing red! (And you notice here that assuming that the temperature increase is greater than the 1 degree we assumed, the result of this calculation will be even more atrocious...) When a premise or assumption leads to atrocious consequences that cannot be true, then the original assumption cannot be true. This is logic for apprentices - ignored by Al Gore and his gang of traitors....

DomKen -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/3/2012 8:11:23 AM)
You are postulating a linear relationship between CO2 level in the air and temperature rise. That is incorrect. Increasing CO2 increases the amount of heat the atmosphere can retain but surface temperature is still affected by many other factors. For instance the amount of input energy from the sun limits how much and how fast the planet can warm. Also the atmosphere spends almost half its time radiating that absorbed heat rather than absorbing additional energy.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/3/2012 11:26:51 AM)
What on earth makes you think man can stop climate change? Money would be better spent adapting to climate change, not a futile effort trying to stop it

Moonhead -> RE: climate change is a hoax, not a joke (11/3/2012 11:29:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElChupa Then end started when politics infiltrated science. The scientific method ENCOURAGES doubters and people who test the hypothesis. Notice how the hard left attacks violently any questioning of global warming? In science there is no 100% sure crap that the hard left peddle with global warming or whatever they call it today. Climate is CYCLICAL. And by the way, follow the money. There are asshats like algore who made hundreds of millions on this hoax. Carbon credits? are you kidding me? Just because you are delusional, doesn't mean the rest of us have to be. Got a cite for any of this? Put up or shut up.

Yachtie -> RE: climate change is a hoax, not a joke (11/3/2012 11:45:10 AM)
fr It's so disillusioning seeing Climate Change everywhere. Especially since it wasn't so long ago it was Global Warming. Climate change just doesn't have that hysteria pop that global warming specificity has. It's way to generic. Just doesn't give any good sense of direction or expectation. It's just not as much fun.[8D]

ToyOfRhamnusia -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/3/2012 3:22:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You are postulating a linear relationship between CO2 level in the air and temperature rise. That is incorrect. Increasing CO2 increases the amount of heat the atmosphere can retain but surface temperature is still affected by many other factors. For instance the amount of input energy from the sun limits how much and how fast the planet can warm. Also the atmosphere spends almost half its time radiating that absorbed heat rather than absorbing additional energy. You are right. But there is so much margin in the reasoning here that it simply doesn't matter. Even if you assume that the dependency is as non-progressive as a logarithmic relationship, we still end up in something completely impossible. The point of my argument was not to claim that "this is how it is", but to show that the the blaming of carbon dioxide for the climate change is atrocious.

ToyOfRhamnusia -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/3/2012 3:31:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy What on earth makes you think man can stop climate change? Money would be better spent adapting to climate change, not a futile effort trying to stop it If man-made activities CAUSED it, man also has the power to stop it. But it is not simple to reverse our actions. Replanting the destroyed forests to suck up the excess carbon dioxide, for instance, will take hundreds of years - and cause a serious shortage of food... And the production of carbon dioxide is simple to reduce dramatically by converting to sustainable energy instead of using fossil fuel - the technology is definitely available - but "Big Oil" stops government from allowing it to develop and be marketed. Again, this only covers the small fraction that is caused by carbon dioxide - which at it very maximum can be only 5% of the total... Also, those parts of climate change that are caused by HAARP can certainly be controlled - and stopped, if the political will and power can be made available for it. I don't think anyone outside the "insiders" who control this have any clue as to how much HAARP can be held accountable for, but it would not surprise me to learn that it is half or more of the total effect... But man will adapt. We will have no choice. And it will cost millions of people their lives...

ToyOfRhamnusia -> RE: climate change is a hoax, not a joke (11/3/2012 3:52:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: ElChupa Then end started when politics infiltrated science. The scientific method ENCOURAGES doubters and people who test the hypothesis. Notice how the hard left attacks violently any questioning of global warming? In science there is no 100% sure crap that the hard left peddle with global warming or whatever they call it today. Climate is CYCLICAL. And by the way, follow the money. There are asshats like algore who made hundreds of millions on this hoax. Carbon credits? are you kidding me? Just because you are delusional, doesn't mean the rest of us have to be. Got a cite for any of this? Put up or shut up. I gave you enough numbers to support ElChupa's claim that whether or not the whole "climate change" situation is man-made or partially man-made, the CONCLUSIONS from that going in direction of introducing a CARBON TAX is simply so outrageous that that fact alone illustrates more than adequately that foul play in behind this whole game. Anyone who has some brain power can "follow the money" and figure out WHY the whole issue of blaming the "climate change" (or "global warming" as it was called before too much was apparent about the bogus intentions behind using it politically). The whole concept of a "carbon tax" and the use of "carbon credits" is outrageous, as it, in reality, allows for taxation of BREATHING!!!!! We all exhale about 4% carbon dioxide into the air.... Besides, carbon dioxide is the very fundamental NOURISHMENT FOR PLANTS. If we reduce the levels, we will face slower growth of all plants - and it will cause a major hunger crisis! Calling carbon dioxide a "pollutant" is simply as ludicrous as calling water a pollutant. It is a natural and absolutely necessary element we depend on for our lives! But, by taxing it, we encourage industries to focus on producing less of it - which will lead to MORE POLLUTION of those chemicals that are indeed threatening our existence. It is like prohibiting knives in order to stop the use of guns for murder... The whole scheme is so typical an illustration of Hegelian dialectics that it stinks for anyone who can understand some logic. The "climate change crisis" is USED by someone who controls money to also control us, WITHOUT making any attempt whatsoever to find out what the real reasons are and what we can do about those - or better yet: start preparing for dealing with what we are going to face soon! But there is nothing about any of this in Al Gore's demagogic - it is ALL about making people scared, so they will accept a carbon tax - which is a great way of introducing some future parts of that New World Order government those banksters and their puppets want so badly. As David Rockefeller said himself (and even publicly): "All we need now is a major crisis, and people will willingly accept the New World Order and its world-wide government." But some people (actually, MOST) are so ignorant that they refuse to see the forest - the trees are blocking their sight.

DomKen -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/3/2012 3:59:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ToyOfRhamnusia quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You are postulating a linear relationship between CO2 level in the air and temperature rise. That is incorrect. Increasing CO2 increases the amount of heat the atmosphere can retain but surface temperature is still affected by many other factors. For instance the amount of input energy from the sun limits how much and how fast the planet can warm. Also the atmosphere spends almost half its time radiating that absorbed heat rather than absorbing additional energy. You are right. But there is so much margin in the reasoning here that it simply doesn't matter. Even if you assume that the dependency is as non-progressive as a logarithmic relationship, we still end up in something completely impossible. The point of my argument was not to claim that "this is how it is", but to show that the the blaming of carbon dioxide for the climate change is atrocious. What is clearly impossible? The fact is that the prebiotic Earth did experience periods of near venusian temperatures and that was clearly related to the GHG is the atmosphere. As to your underlying premise that CO2 is not a photon trap, GHG, do you have any idea how much of physics and chemistry would need to be fundamentally wrong for that to be true?

ToyOfRhamnusia -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/3/2012 5:42:59 PM)
"My dear Watson, here is the essence of the reasoning": If a 200 ppm increase in the carbon dioxide level would be the sole cause for the "global warming"/"climate change" we have observed within the last few decades, then there could have been no life on this planet, as it would have remained too hot, because of the large concentration of carbon dioxide that would have preventing it from cooling. I am fully aware that this is no scientific proof of anything, but it is a simple perspective that should make it possible for layfolks to comprehend that SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG in the claim that carbon dioxide should be the main culprit for the observed changes in the Earth's temperatures. That's all. And that's enough. I am not saying that carbon dioxide isn't a contributor, only that it is a minor one that won't change the overall outcome, even if we could eliminate it altogether. Neither was I saying that carbon dioxide is no photon trap - please do not put words into my mouth that I did not say. I was saying that it isn't STRONG ENOUGH to be the main reason for what we can observe. And I used numbers to back up my reasoning. (You see, physics and chemistry is all about numbers - nothing is black or white in those sciences, despite what politicians and voters like to believe.) Nothing more is required, as this alone put the onus of proof on Al Core and his criminal supporters. If you are one of them, you can provide your proof... And please use numbers, as I don't accept references to personal gurus as scientific proof of anything if those gurus are as corrupt as Al Gore. Besides, the physical/chemical properties that make carbon dioxide trap heat is indeed directly proportional to the concentration of carbon dioxide, just like any other absorption of radiation; for concentrations below 1% (=10,000 ppm), we won't be able to measure any deviation from that on the Earth's temperature.

Politesub53 -> RE: climate change is a hoax, not a joke (11/3/2012 5:56:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElChupa Then end started when politics infiltrated science. The scientific method ENCOURAGES doubters and people who test the hypothesis. Notice how the hard left attacks violently any questioning of global warming? In science there is no 100% sure crap that the hard left peddle with global warming or whatever they call it today. Climate is CYCLICAL. And by the way, follow the money. There are asshats like algore who made hundreds of millions on this hoax. Carbon credits? are you kidding me? Just because you are delusional, doesn't mean the rest of us have to be. Are you completely stupid ? Its a valid question because your comments on the hard left are absurd.

DomKen -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/3/2012 6:46:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ToyOfRhamnusia "My dear Watson, here is the essence of the reasoning": If a 200 ppm increase in the carbon dioxide level would be the sole cause for the "global warming"/"climate change" we have observed within the last few decades, then there could have been no life on this planet, as it would have remained too hot, because of the large concentration of carbon dioxide that would have preventing it from cooling. Then you don't understand how the transition likely occured. The first organisms were likely a lot like modern extremophiles. Able to live in an anaerobic environment that is quite hot, up to a reported 122 C. These organisms would have metabolized a variety of atmospheric gases into N2 and O2. They could have gotten started during a relatively cooler period or they could have been restricted to isolated micro climates for many millions of years. These cyanobacteria are pretty definitely the way the atmosphere was modified.

VerypickyDom -> RE: So climate change is a Joke? (11/3/2012 7:00:34 PM)
I agree that man probably does add some amount of problem to the whole global warming situation however, that does not explain when the weather man says and I quote "The heat record for this June 23 is 101 degrees F which occurred in 1856"... We still see high temps being routinely reported as being recorded back before the modern industrial revolution started. This is the biggest detractor to the whole "global warming" scheme that there is.

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