RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread

RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (Full Version)

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Dustyn -> RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (6/16/2006 6:53:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: Calandra It's kinda like saying "In a recent study, almost 95% of schoolyard bullies chew bubblegum, so there seems to be a link between chewing bubblegum and childhood hostility" - BULLSHIT! Actually, there's a link between chewing bubblegum and childhood period... but they don't alert you to that fact in the report do they??? The general way to say this is "Correllation does not equate to causation." However, a strong enough correllation could lead to patterns, better understanding of the process and might point to POSSIBLE avenues of causation. Now this is what I was trying to dig down to, before people started jumping up and tossing objections around like frisbees in a dog park. Is the corellation between the psych profiles and the fantasy in bdsm strong enough to support the idea that it can be construed as an early warning signal? Personally, I find the concept morally reprehensible, but that could be because I have a daughter, so naturally the idea is rupugnant to me. I talk quite a bit about the grey areas with my shrink and my friends, and this one came up recently, and not by my prompting. I really think this falls into a grey area. Think about it for a moment. If we can make a legal distinction between pre-meditated murder and plain old, every day murder, why can't it end up being applied to this kind of a concept? Still waiting on some of my friends to chime in on this, but the opinions are prettty much split down the middle. If the distinction lies in the thought beforehand, can and does it count at all in something like this?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (6/16/2006 7:05:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dustyn Is the corellation between the psych profiles and the fantasy in bdsm strong enough to support the idea that it can be construed as an early warning signal? No. Again, what we're looking for is PATTERNS. And one element alone does not make a pattern. Networks together require at least a few points to connect.

Calandra -> RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (6/16/2006 7:06:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dustyn Now this is what I was trying to dig down to, before people started jumping up and tossing objections around like frisbees in a dog park. My original post was in answer to your op... and My second one was specifically stating that I was not attacking your views, but the way some profiles are arrived at and applied.... ~woof woof~ quote: Is the corellation between the psych profiles and the fantasy in bdsm strong enough to support the idea that it can be construed as an early warning signal? I'll first post an additional portion of my previous comment: *A psychological profile can be helpful if you look at the whole thing* and consider the overall picture. It's useless if you take a single observation and apply it universally.** In MY OPINION ONLY, one specific feature of any profile cannot be used to accurately show causation of ANYTHING. The important thing is to take the entire profile and see if the majority of the features listed apply in each specific case. <edited to remove a flame-ish remark... I don't do it often, but let's just say this is a baaaaad morning and I don' wanna take pain meds and be a zombie.>

VandalHeart -> RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (6/16/2006 1:09:02 PM)
There is no such thing as a complete, comprehensive, and reliable psychological profile. Humanity will always have the ability to act with complete irrationality and traverse the restrictions of their own identity boundaries. People can still surprize themselves. Basically, while Calandra is utterly correct, her logic is both sound and useless except in the full extension of her theory. You can never predict with ANY ammount of accuracy what ANYONE is going to do, no matter what their proclivities are. In a nut shell, this entire discussion is way too close to being a Fred Phelps sermon for my comfort.

Dustyn -> RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (6/17/2006 1:49:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: Dustyn Is the corellation between the psych profiles and the fantasy in bdsm strong enough to support the idea that it can be construed as an early warning signal? No. Again, what we're looking for is PATTERNS. And one element alone does not make a pattern. Networks together require at least a few points to connect. Well, where do patterns begin? There has to be a start point somewhere, right? I mean, even in Genesis, God didn't create everything all at once. He created one thing, then the next and the next... Granted, I don't believe in God, or anything like that, so don't go thinking I'm some religious nut here. I'm just wondering if it CAN be looked at that way, not if it IS. Like Vandal said, nothing is foolproof or set in stone, as I like to say. Too many factors tie in, especially when it comes to the human brain. Think of it as connect the dots. There is always a Dot 1, which leads to Dot 2. No two connect the dots are the same, kind of like people. Is it within the realms of possibility that this kind of a fantasy CAN be an indicator of the prediliction? Nothing more, nothing less. My vote would be yes, simply because the brain is just too complex to nail something down perfectly, so it is possible. Oh, and Calandra, I don't overly sweat flames online, so don't worry about it if ya wanna post one. 9 times out of 10, I find them amusing to one extent or another. =)

kickinchick -> RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (6/17/2006 1:59:22 PM)
I should jusk kick your head off, Dustyn....and OMG, it would be soooo easy. Stop arguing like you are on the debate team and begin to use common sense for a change. I know they can't teach that at K.U., but hopefully you are blessed with it? Choose your battles carefully, none of us can fight them all. If this is what you feel strongly about...then carry on, but talk in English...plain English, so that we all understand your point.

Proprietrix -> RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (6/17/2006 2:30:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dustyn There seems to be a general agreement that pedophilia is pretty much scratched off everyone's list, including mine. No. This is just the general agreement among those who have scratched it off the list, or want others to believe they have scratched it off the list. Those who have not scratched it off the list, live by "I have the right to remain silent." quote: For a more grey area of the concept, what about scenes of daddy/daughter or mother/son rape scenes? Does this count, since most profiles for the pedophile consist of steps, and one of them is the fantasy, which is what such a scene is, at least to my mind. Does it count as wrong to fantasize over it, or is it just the action that counts as wrong? Like everything else, it depends on who you ask. And even when folks answer, when it comes to such a taboo topic, the majority are going to say what is supposed to be heard. And some won't comment at all. quote: Is it within the realms of possibility that this kind of a fantasy CAN be an indicator of the predilection? Yes. Of course. Here’s the thing though. How many people are honestly going to step up to the plate and admit it? Approximately none. And for several reasons, most of which are apparently obvious in the form of TOS violations and putting one’s own head on the chopping block. I don’t think any of us are so naïve to assume that all Mommy-Daddy/little one dynamics are founded in psychologically healthy, mentally sound adults. The people that speak up about it are going to either be psychologically healthy, mentally sound adults, or people who want to come across as psychologically healthy, mentally sound adults. As I’ve said before regarding other mental health issues and the lifestyle, I really cannot fathom a good reason why BDSM should be excluded as a coping mechanism. If there is a pedophile out there, and his/her relationship with another consenting adult is preventing his/her inclination to become a predator, I support that. I’m not so blind as to believe that all pedophiles steer away from this lifestyle. Nor am I so blind as to believe that all pedophilia inclined people act out their issues on children. I am fully aware that yes, there are people in this lifestyle who have a predisposition toward pedophilia, and they fulfill those fantasies via consensual role-play. How many people engaging in Mommy/Daddy roleplay are inclined toward pedophilia? I really don’t know. Seriously, how many of them would step up to the plate and admit it? How many of them are willing to say "I do it with adults because I fantasize about doing it with children." How many even let their partners in on the fantasy? Much less, letting an entire online forum or munch group in on it? They’d be asinine to admit it. It’d be willingly stepping in front of a firing squad. And the rest of the BDSM world is perfectly content not having those people step forward and admit it, because it would look bad on the rest of the community. More stereotypes. More vanilla fears. More backlash. I don’t think you’re going to find your answers here Dustyn, because those who don’t fit in the "acceptable kink" box, those who could speak to the other side of the coin, those who "fit the profile", are smart enough to keep their damn mouth shut.

LaMalinche -> RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (6/17/2006 2:52:44 PM)
Ya know. . . this discussion would be so much easier if you would be honest, Dustyn, and say. . . I want to do a Daddy/daughter scene but I am afraid that it will point out that I am a pedophile. Will doing such a scene push me over the edge? The KISS method. . . Keep It Simple Stupid. You have this desire, but want to surround it in terms that make it seem as if it is just an intellectual discussion. Sheesh. The answers that you are looking for will be easier to find if you just admit what you are really wanting to know. As Dr. House says, "Everybody lies". Oh my, I do love Hugh Laurie. If this desire is really bothering you, might I suggest reading Farnham's Freehold, by Robert Heinlein. While there are several philosophies presented in that story. . . the parent/child one is addressed. Plus, it is a good story. God luck to you, and please keep in mind to ask the question that you are really wanting answers to, and stop asking questions that merely refer to the abstract of what you are wanting to know.

iliv2servher -> RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (6/17/2006 4:35:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dustyn There seems to be a general agreement that pedophilia is pretty much scratched off everyone's list, including mine. For a more grey area of the concept, what about scenes of daddy/daughter or mother/son rape scenes? Does this count, since most profiles for the pedophile consist of steps, and one of them is the fantasy, which is what such a scene is, at least to my mind. Does it count as wrong to fantasize over it, or is it just the action that counts as wrong? A few years ago, I became involved with a younger woman. And, during the course of the relationship, she wanted to involve me in age play. In other words, I would be playing the role of a daddy dom and she would be the daughter. The whole idea repulsed me so much that I just couldn't do it. It wasn't that I am, or ever have been, a parent to a young child. The fact is, I was never a parent. Thinking about it just makes me sick!

DigitBox -> RE: From the Viewing Other's Kink's Thread (6/17/2006 8:38:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dustyn There seems to be a general agreement that pedophilia is pretty much scratched off everyone's list, including mine. For a more grey area of the concept, what about scenes of daddy/daughter or mother/son rape scenes? Does this count, since most profiles for the pedophile consist of steps, and one of them is the fantasy, which is what such a scene is, at least to my mind. Does it count as wrong to fantasize over it, or is it just the action that counts as wrong? Curious as to how people look on it, for the most part. I don't think it's on the path to becoming a pedophile. If two adults want to consent to play that way then that's their thing. Now if participants feel the need to move from fantasy to reality, and start involving under age kids then I'd be worried. Personally I won't do age play since I see myself as a grown up. Also parental units were pretty shity to me, and an older man on my block tried to coerce me into sex when I was 14. I emphasize tried as he never got much more than a breif peek at what was in my underpants, when he pulled his pants open and started to jerk off, I left. I wasn't going to be pushed any further into something I didn't want. I tend to be fine with the older mentor/ young learner kind of thing, but that's it for me. Maybe because of my martial arts training. A confident guy who can command but maintain humility and not power trip is a very sexy thing to me. He's in control of himself but still knows how to use the power he wields. Plus he's experienced and knowledgeable. I also like a guy who can best me in battle. :-)

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