RE: Saying 'No!'

RE: Saying 'No!' (Full Version)

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Reflectivesoul -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/17/2006 7:14:44 PM)
bearlee, I dont see a problem with either terms, atleast it puts a definitive on that persons wants, which is much needed at times in WIITWD. But then again I dont find a problem with a lot of terms.... damn PC anyhow lol

KnightofMists -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/17/2006 7:24:49 PM)
fast reply Does it really matter that someone else says "NO" to their Dominant in "THEIR" relationship. I think Not. It only matters in our own individual relationship dynamics! Secondly, I don't get the need to label and group this type of Submissive... this type of Dominant... like we have boxes we all have to fit into. The bottom line there is some you going to see as Dominant or Submissive and their is going to be others you don't see as Dominant or submissive. You can stand on the tallest mountain and yell your a Dominant or a Submissive. But, in my eyes if I don't see you as one... you are not to me and only to me. Others may agree or disagree with my opinion of you but that doesn't change or make any opinion less or more valid. Just Different! ain't opinions lovely.!

Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/17/2006 7:26:23 PM)
*runs in and slaps a "I say NO for beatings" bumper sticker on Bearlee's cute ass and runs out laughing with Reflectivesoul

Sinergy -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/17/2006 8:12:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe None of you know what you will or will not do till it slaps you in the face... so jump off your high and mighty soap boxes....and just admit.. you THINK they will or won't do things... but you really do not know. So I take my sub to the Lair. I insisted on using safe words with her. I taught her what they are. The conversation actually went on about 9 minutes longer than I wanted it to because I had to listen to this endless prattle about how "It would disrespect you" and "I would never use the safe words" and blah. Sure. Ok. I tie her to the spanking bench, naked. She is all hot and bothered. I wander over to my toy box and pull out my wurtenberg wheel. I drive it here. I drive it there. I rub with my hands a few times, but mostly it is just driving that little wheel all over the place. No spanking. No beating. No flogging. etc. After about 15 minutes of this, she calls her safeword and bursts into tears. I stop what I am doing. Wrap her up. Sit her in my lap in one of the comfy chairs in the living room. After about 10 minutes she starts apologizing for using her safe word. I shush her and tell her I dont mind. Apparently the maddening sensation of the wheel was more than she could deal with. When a person cannot say "no" to me, I dont think I can really truly believe they can say "yes" to me? Just me, could be wrong, etc. Sinergy

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/17/2006 10:06:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy When a person cannot say "no" to me, I dont think I can really truly believe they can say "yes" to me? [sm=applause.gif] The assumption that saying No is always the easy way out, and always the wrong thing to say is just shortsighted. One fo the most important things I learned from submitting was how to say no. It was something I badly needed to learn. To assume that those of us who do say no, are not passionate, or interested in D/s outside of the bedroom is just silly. I think a lot of the dissension over this subject is that so many posters are taking saying no to be the equivalent of being disrespectful, willfully disobedient, or, pissy. I think we can all agree that those things are pretty unpleasant. But trying to put people in categories is just unneccesary. As I said in another thread tonight. I'm just me. Plain and simple. And no dominant I've submitted to has ever doubted my submissive nature. That's good enough for me.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/17/2006 10:08:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Just me, could be wrong, etc. You know what, Sinergy, I have yet to think so. [sm=smile.gif]

Bearlee -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 6:50:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful I think a lot of the dissension over this subject is that so many posters are taking saying no to be the equivalent of being disrespectful, willfully disobedient, or, pissy. [sm=applause.gif] I think that is EXACTLY what has happened, cinful! Thank You... I keep trying, obviously not too well; to remind people this is NOT about saying 'No'...it is about refusal and rudeness (whether or not the one I quoted meant that at the time). I know there ARE those who DO talk like that; I've heard them... but what Sinergy said is spot on: "When a person cannot say "no" to me, I don’t think I can really truly believe they can say "yes" to me". And as you pointed out again, cin, this thread was NOT meant to focus on 'no'; but the refusal/rudeness part. I'm really sorry I wasn't able to make myself more clear...and I'm embarrassed some apparently think I'm just another stone-thrower or some doormat who never utters the word. Oh, regarding the ‘categories’ part, I thought feastie put it very well with: quote: ORIGINAL: feastie I've posted the link to a page which defines nine levels of submissives. The thing that I like about that list, is not because it labels anyone, but because it helps someone identify themselves. Many people, oddly enough, don't know. I identify between two different levels on the list. That's perfectly ok because I don't want to be locked into a little box and never allowed to escape. That means I would not be allowed to grow and learn. It might be that I might identify with a different level on that list at some other time. So far, that's not happened, but I certainly don't want the freedom taken from me by a label. Someone else in THIS thread, referred to the levels of submissiveness (rather than submissives...which seems to 'rate' a person rather than an interest; huge difference and I hope one more conducive to debate...IMHO). I believe, as long as labels are not 'static'...I don't see why they can't be anything more than helpful to help us (and others) to understand where we are TODAY. MOO Edited to get the quote thingy working properly...errrrrr...the typist to work properly so the quote thingy would work as intended. beverly

sharainks -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 6:54:52 AM)
When a person cannot say "no" to me, I dont think I can really truly believe they can say "yes" to me? Just me, could be wrong, etc. Sinergy ---------------------------------------------------------- Very well put. No is a part of life. If one cannot accept that and go on imo there needs to be some soul searching on their part. They need to ask themselves why they think they should be able to opt out of the fact that at times you don't get exactly what you want.

bandit25 -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 6:56:28 AM)
What a great lesson!

maybemaybenot -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 9:27:20 AM)
bearlee: I have follwed this thread for a few days. You started out naming it Saying No and the reasons why you think this is undermining to a D/s relationship. You have re created or tried to clarify your intent of the post many times. The basic theme I have seem you post is you were misunderstood/unclear and this thread is not about saying No. After 7 pages you say, it not about saying No, it's about refussal. When I say no, and I have, after we cut thru all the communication and non combative ways I have said it, in essence, I have refused. I guess my question is: Was your intent to say it is Ok to say no to a direct order as long as it is done politely and with dialogue? Is it just the rudeness factor and the presentation? Does saying no to a direct order not undermine the relationship if done is a particular fashion? I ask you this, because as this thread has continued your opinion/ what you are saying is murky. Let me re state that. The way in which I am reading your opinion is pretty murky. mbmbn

kyraofMists -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 11:05:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe None of you know what you will or will not do till it slaps you in the face... so jump off your high and mighty soap boxes....and just admit.. you THINK they will or won't do things... but you really do not know. Jessica, I hope you do not mind me taking this quote a little out of context. I think this statement applies to us all. Until we have been placed in the situations, we do not know how we will react, we only think we know. I think it is a matter of can you actually "walk the walk" (whatever that walk happens to be). Recently my Lord, Alandra and I have gone through a painful experience that has shown we can walk the walk. My Lord has shown that he will stand by his code, "Do my will, harm none" even when it is difficult to do and I have shown that while I will not say "No, I will not do it" to whatever he tells me to do, I will stand up and protect my boundaries from him. Throughout it all, I didn’t say no, but I was resolute in giving him the information on how I thought I was being harmed. It is an experience though painful and difficult, taught us much about ourselves and brought us closer as a family. Things are not always perfect but we are committed to walking the walk even in the tough times. Knight's kyra

Proprietrix -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 11:13:59 AM)
quote: I’m fairly new to the boards and have been flamed heavily of late. Hang in there. It's a phase of your initiation. In the end, when we are critisized, constructively or otherwise, we not only learn more about ourselves, but we develop a thicker hide. I'm confident in saying that no one here can express themselves 100% accurately through the written word 100% of the time. quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee PS... Can I call you Ms P? One of these days I'm gonna butcher your name and be wayyyyyyyyy embarrased! Miss. Not Ms. "Miss" keeps me single. "Ms." leaves room for doubt about my availability. Quite frankly though, I've been known to respond to "Hey you cynical sarcastic bitch."[;)]

Bearlee -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 11:52:53 AM)
Well gee…while it’s true I didn’t expect people to respond to the literally using the word NO in any context (I mean, you say you have read the whole thread…how many times did you see people go off on the idea that I was suggesting ‘never say no to ANYTHING?) <shakes head> As I stated in my apparently rather murky OP…I am curious as to how people deal with a submissive’s inability complete, or disinterest to complete, a command from their Dominant. I quoted an entire post from another thread to ensure I got the gist as I understood it and added “to further explain, I DO believe in communication! If a submissive or slave struggles with a request, by all means they should discuss it with their Dominant. But, that is a HUGE difference from just saying No! …isn’t it?” Still…people apparently thought I thought meant one couldn’t refuse an extra cup of coffee. It is my belief that to rudely refuse a command in a D/s relationship is to take back the power in the power exchange and thus…effectively END the D/s relationship. Some people agreed, some suggested it may or may not. Some went off on tangents about the word No. Some just flamed me. Apparently I don’t communicate well, but I have learned some things on this thread…so all is well, in my world. So…in spite of my several many attempts at clarification I guess it’s STILL murky to you. Is that what you wanted to point out? It seems clear to me that those who understood what I meant reacted positively (in agreement or disagreement) and those who added negative posts were the ones who acted like I said god should outlaw safe-words. If you are as interested as one would assume by your taking time to post this query; perhaps you should just go back and re-read the entire thing again, paying close attention to not only what I ask, but how I respond. Seems some people were able to muck through it. PS…there is something to be said for simple titles on Forums; those are the ones that bring responses.

Bearlee -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 12:01:30 PM)
LOL … Well, thank you Miss P! (Somehow I knew Trixie was out…heh heh heh) I have a friend who many of us refer to as T. It works... [:)] And yes, it’s true…I learn a lot here; both about me AND whatever it is we do. Thanks again...

Bearlee -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 12:09:16 PM)
kyra, thank you for this last post. The posts from you and your family are some of the most pleasant, polite, and informed posts I’ve seen on any board. It is obvious that while KoM is Dominant; with regard to honor and integrity he expects no less from himself than he does his submissives…same goes for politeness. It is apparent I have had a difficult time putting words out to express what it is I’m trying to say…you have helped me a great deal. Thank you. beverly

feastie -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 1:28:51 PM)
There are times "no" is appropriate. It just depends on your particular relationship and how ya say it.

maybemaybenot -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 4:03:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee Well gee…while it’s true I didn’t expect people to respond to the literally using the word NO in any context (I mean, you say you have read the whole thread…how many times did you see people go off on the idea that I was suggesting ‘never say no to ANYTHING?) <shakes head> As I stated in my apparently rather murky OP…I am curious as to how people deal with a submissive’s inability complete, or disinterest to complete, a command from their Dominant. I quoted an entire post from another thread to ensure I got the gist as I understood it and added “to further explain, I DO believe in communication! If a submissive or slave struggles with a request, by all means they should discuss it with their Dominant. But, that is a HUGE difference from just saying No! …isn’t it?” Still…people apparently thought I thought meant one couldn’t refuse an extra cup of coffee. It is my belief that to rudely refuse a command in a D/s relationship is to take back the power in the power exchange and thus…effectively END the D/s relationship. Some people agreed, some suggested it may or may not. Some went off on tangents about the word No. Some just flamed me. Apparently I don’t communicate well, but I have learned some things on this thread…so all is well, in my world. So…in spite of my several many attempts at clarification I guess it’s STILL murky to you. Is that what you wanted to point out? It seems clear to me that those who understood what I meant reacted positively (in agreement or disagreement) and those who added negative posts were the ones who acted like I said god should outlaw safe-words. If you are as interested as one would assume by your taking time to post this query; perhaps you should just go back and re-read the entire thing again, paying close attention to not only what I ask, but how I respond. Seems some people were able to muck through it. PS…there is something to be said for simple titles on Forums; those are the ones that bring responses. Bearlee: I was not inferring you were a bad communicator, I was paraphrasing YOU. That you thought you had mis stated your intent, that you stated you didn't really mean a submissive couldn't say no, but to refuse was wrong. Apparently any question that asks you to clarify or questions you is being taken as a personal attack, which my questions were not meant as. As for the murkiness that is on me, as I re stated. But you read it however you like. You see in my world when I say the words NO, it is a direct refussal. When I say I refuse, I am in effect saying NO. No matter how I sugar coat it, no matter the tone .. it is what it is. And in my entire submissive career, I have probably said No or refused three times. Always nicely always worded respectfully, but the end product was refusal You have said a few times, there is a difference between saying No and refusing or being rude. I get the rude part, not the refusal part quote: bearlee: So…in spite of my several many attempts at clarification I guess it’s STILL murky to you. Is that what you wanted to point out? No, I didn't want to point anything out, I wanted to understand your position. quote: bearleeIt is my belief that to rudely refuse a command in a D/s relationship is to take back the power in the power exchange and thus…effectively END the D/s relationship. What I gather from this is that it is OK to refuse < aka: say NO>, but not rudely. Which answers my questions when taken out of context. I don't think that is what you mean, but there in lies my murkiness. quote: bearlee: It is apparent I have had a difficult time putting words out to express what it is I’m trying to say…you have helped me a great deal. This is your response to kyra, stating you haven't been clear, yet in your post to me, you direct me to re read the thread so I can understand you. I have read, re read and I still come up with the same answer. However, since you seem irritated by my asking you three simple questions, relax, take a deep breath and forget about it. I am not really interested in trying to see your POV any longer. < in this thread, not as an absolute statement of fact> mbmbn

BreakMeShakeMe -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 5:34:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists quote: ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe None of you know what you will or will not do till it slaps you in the face... so jump off your high and mighty soap boxes....and just admit.. you THINK they will or won't do things... but you really do not know. Jessica, I hope you do not mind me taking this quote a little out of context. I think this statement applies to us all. Until we have been placed in the situations, we do not know how we will react, we only think we know. I think it is a matter of can you actually "walk the walk" (whatever that walk happens to be). Recently my Lord, Alandra and I have gone through a painful experience that has shown we can walk the walk. My Lord has shown that he will stand by his code, "Do my will, harm none" even when it is difficult to do and I have shown that while I will not say "No, I will not do it" to whatever he tells me to do, I will stand up and protect my boundaries from him. Throughout it all, I didn’t say no, but I was resolute in giving him the information on how I thought I was being harmed. It is an experience though painful and difficult, taught us much about ourselves and brought us closer as a family. Things are not always perfect but we are committed to walking the walk even in the tough times. Knight's kyra Evening kyra.... I don't think of you taking that out of`context....you took it as it was ment....glad things went well... always nice to see. I for one.. just think no one knows for sure.. till it happens... as it was happening... according to you... you knew.. but AS it was happening... 3 days... 5 weeks.. you really didn't know for 100 %... though it's nice to think we do. It helps more when you really really trust the one you gave yourself too... that's the great reading I see in your post...and your family. Not one time have I ever seen you gals on here asking.. How do I (Deal with something concerning KoM)... all that is kept off here.. that I have seen....and really... makes me appreciate the post I read from all of you more and more. Still might not agree with all...... but it does make me think twice... and bring smiles to my lips. Like Owned too..and a few others... you bring positive ..... to negatives.... in your post... as it pertains to you personally. Hope the rest of your weekend went well.... Jessica

ownedgirlie -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 8:20:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy I tie her to the spanking bench, naked. She is all hot and bothered. I wander over to my toy box and pull out my wurtenberg wheel. I drive it here. I drive it there. I rub with my hands a few times, but mostly it is just driving that little wheel all over the place. No spanking. No beating. No flogging. etc. I just had to post to this. I hate the wartenburg wheel. Hate it, I say! My first experience with it was when I was tied over the back of a chair and blindfolded. No idea what the hell that was. It felt like he was slicing me open with a knife. I thrashed pretty good in those bindings!! Now he likes to hold it up to me with an evil grin and I whimper, "Oh God, not that...." [:D]

SirDaniel -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/18/2006 8:32:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiska A lot of it is tone and attitude ... Exactly. I have told slaves before and will again. You will never be punished for WHAT you say, but HOW it is said. You can tell me to go to hell in a hand basket, but you had better make me look forward to the trip..>:)

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