Saying 'No!'

Saying 'No!' (Full Version)

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Bearlee -> Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:29:00 PM)
I recently read a submissive’s post regarding her difficulty finishing a command from her Master. While MOST replied with the helpfulness I’d expect to find here on CollarMe, one person posted: quote: I just tell him... no can do... sorry.. got something else instead... if he gets pist.. he gets pist.. and then I tell him.. if it can be done.. you go do it.. Edited to add... it's all in how it' s said. And him knowing reality sometimes stops things from being done. And yes ...while dealing in real life.. reality still steps in and shows it's face too... IMHO…D/s and M/s mean a great deal; it is not about roll-play for me. Assuming that IS the case here (and I certainly got that it was with the submissive who originally posted)…I am curious what you all think about the one response (above). I replied: quote: Right...and know THIS: the very first time you tell that to your Dominant, you have pretty much ENDED your D/s relationship! You cannot expect it to continue if you just up and tell Him/Her "NO". So…to further explain, I DO believe in communication! If a submissive or slave struggles with a request, by all means they should discuss it with their Dominant. But, that is a HUGE difference from just saying No! …isn’t it? (for those interested...OP is here: http://www.collarchat.com/m_429087/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#429172 )

Reflectivesoul -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:33:04 PM)
I think by completely shutting it down with no other communication besides a flat out NO shows a lack of trust between the Dominant and the submissive. If there is a problem then the submissive should feel comfortable talking it through with their Dominant as no one is a mind reader and why should one suffer with negative feelings if it can be avoided by simply talking it out? No matter how big or how small someone feels a situation may be, talking about it is the only way to bring it out into the open so that both parties involved can voice their feelings and hopefully get the situation resolved so that there arent any negative feelings on either side of the fence.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:33:11 PM)
When in the courting process, when forming a relationship with someone- it is as vital to understand and be able to say NO as it is to understand and be able to say YES. Otherwise, the entire point of consent is lost. Once you have said YES (ie established the relationship, accepted the expectations and committed yourself), then that is the answer that you work with. Now, lots of masters are ok with slaves saying no- they know that their slave wouldn't say no without reason and if they ARE saying no, they need to listen and work it out. If you're with a master who isn't of these thoughts- then you should obviously know this ahead of time and have accepted it. As with everything, there is a line of reasonability- what forms the character and lastingness of a relationship is in large part "how do we get through the tough times together." Simply trying the muscle approach of "Just do it whore!" isn't always the right way- but sometimes it is. What matters is working together through it, however works best for you. We claim so often how important communication is in our relationships and lives- why would we shut down a part of that?

kiska -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:38:00 PM)
A lot of it is tone and attitude ... I've had moments where I've simply said, "no ..." and thats been ok. I have PTSD and anxiety issues ... At times, and this isn't very often but it does happen, if I am overly pressured I simply dissociate ... Anyone I even consider giving up control to has to understand what that entails. There will be times when I simply have to say, "no ..." and can't sit there and explain myself at that exact moment in time. This doesn't mean that I won't try to explain it later ... It just means that at that moment in time, I had to say, "no ... " I think that if a dominant is going to be so sensative that he or she cannot handle hearing the word "no ..." from the lips of their submissive then maybe they should take a little time to work on that. Sensativity and understanding are important for almost any working long term relationship, at least to a certain degree. As with all things, it varies with the people involved ... I do agree that the attitude of, "I just tell him... no can do... sorry.. got something else instead... if he gets pist.. he gets pist.. and then I tell him.. if it can be done.. you go do it.." is probably not the best one to have when speaking to your dominant lover. I don't even think that it would cross my mind to use that approach ... lol

trippingdaisy -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:39:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee I DO believe in communication! If a submissive or slave struggles with a request, by all means they should discuss it with their Dominant. But, that is a HUGE difference from just saying No! …isn’t it? Yes yes yes! i apologize to anyone this may offend, but i have a very ..hmm...strict view on saying 'no'. Do i, or WILL i, ever just look at my Master and say 'No!'. HELL NO. (Unless it's part of some scene in which i'm resisting, then...well...that's another topic entirely) Can i communicate with Him that i'm unsure i'll be able to do something He's ask? YES! Most D/s relationships (especially ones that have already been established) are built on respect, among other things. If i were to be snotty and tell Him, 'No way! i'm not doing THAT. EW...' omg, no. Just no. i couldn't dream of doing that. Shutting down communication by a hard 'NO', then just shrugging if He gets angry about it...that's just rediculous, and can be very detrimental to ANY relationship, not just one that's built on power exchange.

kyraofMists -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:43:01 PM)
In my relationship, refusing to do what he instructs me to do, removes my consent and his ownership of me. If there is something that I don't think I can do, then I talk to him about it. In the end though, if he says to do it and I refuse, then the M/s relationship is over. kyra

trippingdaisy -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:46:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiska A lot of it is tone and attitude ... I've had moments where I've simply said, "no ..." and thats been ok. I have PTSD and anxiety issues ... At times, and this isn't very often but it does happen, if I am overly pressured I simply dissociate ... Anyone I even consider giving up control to has to understand what that entails. There will be times when I simply have to say, "no ..." and can't sit there and explain myself at that exact moment in time. This doesn't mean that I won't try to explain it later ... It just means that at that moment in time, I had to say, "no ... " Very good thing to bring up, here. Thank you for this. :) i've dealt with anxiety disorders, panic disorders, and DID (dissociative identity disorder) for quite some time now. Because of this, i'm sure i've said 'NO' at times...even if i may not remember it later. Difference is, Master knows when i'm having 'issues' and when i'm not. [:)] It's pretty apparent when i'm having anxiety/panic attacks, and i've been very very good at communicating when my anxiety level is up, and He may want to be aware of it, in case i react in a way that's out of character for me. The problem often comes, though, that when i'm dissociated and having an 'episode'...He sometimes still can't tell. You nailed it on the head when you said 'This doesn't mean that I won't try to explain it later ... It just means that at that moment in time, I had to say, "no ... " It's important to be able to explain it later. If you're just letting your Dom be 'pist', then that's not really helping anything at all.

Bearlee -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:49:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross When in the courting process, when forming a relationship with someone- it is as vital to understand and be able to say NO as it is to understand and be able to say YES. Otherwise, the entire point of consent is lost. … We claim so often how important communication is in our relationships and lives- why would we shut down a part of that? (red bolding was mine) Bingooooooo! THAT is what I mean… Communication is KEY; especially in D/s and M/s relationships, isn’t it? MOO, but…to just say ‘No way’ IS going to completely undermine the whole relationship and take back the very consent and control originally exchanged! Thank you again, LA!

Bearlee -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:51:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists In my relationship, refusing to do what he instructs me to do, removes my consent and his ownership of me. If there is something that I don't think I can do, then I talk to him about it. In the end though, if he says to do it and I refuse, then the M/s relationship is over. EXACTLY! That's what I'd think, too! Just say No...and it's done!!! How else COULD it be?

Bearlee -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:55:59 PM)
crap... my bad! please excuse me, kiska...

kiska -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:56:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: trippingdaisy i've dealt with anxiety disorders, panic disorders, and DID (dissociative identity disorder) for quite some time now. Because of this, i'm sure i've said 'NO' at times...even if i may not remember it later. Difference is, Master knows when i'm having 'issues' and when i'm not. [:)] It's pretty apparent when i'm having anxiety/panic attacks, and i've been very very good at communicating when my anxiety level is up, and He may want to be aware of it, in case i react in a way that's out of character for me. The problem often comes, though, that when i'm dissociated and having an 'episode'...He sometimes still can't tell. You nailed it on the head when you said 'This doesn't mean that I won't try to explain it later ... It just means that at that moment in time, I had to say, "no ... " It's important to be able to explain it later. If you're just letting your Dom be 'pist', then that's not really helping anything at all. You lucky girl! Unfortunately my current relationship is suffering because he doesn't know how to deal with my DID and PTSD. Its hard to explain it to someone who's never experienced it and his attitude is that if I would just "suck it up and deal with it" it would go away and I'd never have to deal with it again. I'm the kind of person who wants to talk about EVERYTHING. I've found my biggest communication struggle is when the dominant feels like things have been explained sufficiently enough and he doesn't want to discuss it anymore but I'm still going over it in my head. I sometimes wonder if thats just a guy thing or if maybe I'm simply choosing the wrong dominants or do I just talk too much? [:)]

kiska -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 1:57:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee crap... my bad! ROFL You must have caught it just as I was about to say, hey I did NOT say that!

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 2:00:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiska I'm the kind of person who wants to talk about EVERYTHING. I've found my biggest communication struggle is when the dominant feels like things have been explained sufficiently enough and he doesn't want to discuss it anymore but I'm still going over it in my head. I sometimes wonder if thats just a guy thing or if maybe I'm simply choosing the wrong dominants or do I just talk too much? [:)] A) Nearly every single submissive when they first start out is completely impatient. in two years they either learn patience or they don't call themselves a submissive anymore. B) Nearly every single submissive when they first start out is insecure about who they are in the scene and overthinks EVERYTHING. In two years they either have come to a place of security or they don't. The answer to your question? Likely both- you are insecure and have problems which cause you to constantly need external reinforcement, AND you likely pick doms that are harsh and not able to handle your special needs.

lisa1978 -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 2:00:22 PM)
It all depends on what you are saying no and how you say it. As a person who strongle identifies with being slave, no is a word that I hate to ever come out of my mouth to my owner no matter how politely it is phrased. Communication is essential and talking things through is a must. Blindly following something is just as unhealthy as saying no to anything that confuses, displeases or you are scared of.

Bearlee -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 2:01:09 PM)
Yup... lordy, am I embarrased, too! I'm sorry about that...and glad I caught it; sorry, though you did too. <sigh> I've got two windows goin and obviously goin too fast! LOL Thank you for your kind reply... sheeshhhhhhhhhh

CreativeDominant -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 2:16:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee I recently read a submissive’s post regarding her difficulty finishing a command from her Master. While MOST replied with the helpfulness I’d expect to find here on CollarMe, one person posted: quote: I just tell him... no can do... sorry.. got something else instead... if he gets pist.. he gets pist.. and then I tell him.. if it can be done.. you go do it.. Edited to add... it's all in how it' s said. And him knowing reality sometimes stops things from being done. And yes ...while dealing in real life.. reality still steps in and shows it's face too... IMHO…D/s and M/s mean a great deal; it is not about roll-play for me. Assuming that IS the case here (and I certainly got that it was with the submissive who originally posted)…I am curious what you all think about the one response (above). I replied: quote: Right...and know THIS: the very first time you tell that to your Dominant, you have pretty much ENDED your D/s relationship! You cannot expect it to continue if you just up and tell Him/Her "NO". So…to further explain, I DO believe in communication! If a submissive or slave struggles with a request, by all means they should discuss it with their Dominant. But, that is a HUGE difference from just saying No! …isn’t it? (for those interested...OP is here: http://www.collarchat.com/m_429087/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#429172 ) I agree that communication is important and just got through posting about that on the thread that you pointed out, bearlee. As for just saying "NO" to your dominant...while a lot depends on the situation, I have to admit I would be taken aback by this. If I am pushing and pushing and pushing at a "hard" limit and she says no...then yeah, for me anyway, this is an acceptable no. If I am pushing her to do something that is not a hard limit and is a "soft" limit, and there is nothing further forthcoming from her, that is when "being taken aback" would set in. At that point, I feel there is a huge need for some serious discussion about what submission means to the submissive in question and to the dominant in question. There may be a hitherto unseen difference in beliefs.

bklynbbw -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 2:17:53 PM)
After two yrs? Is that two yrs r/t with someone or just learning about the life style? I have been exploring/learning for a little over a yr now. I have many friends...go to munches and parties...ask lots and lots of questions..lol but I have yet to meet someone I want to be with. Hope Im not almost out of time....<<smile>>

Reflectivesoul -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 2:19:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: kiska I'm the kind of person who wants to talk about EVERYTHING. I've found my biggest communication struggle is when the dominant feels like things have been explained sufficiently enough and he doesn't want to discuss it anymore but I'm still going over it in my head. I sometimes wonder if thats just a guy thing or if maybe I'm simply choosing the wrong dominants or do I just talk too much? [:)] A) Nearly every single submissive when they first start out is completely impatient. in two years they either learn patience or they don't call themselves a submissive anymore. B) Nearly every single submissive when they first start out is insecure about who they are in the scene and overthinks EVERYTHING. In two years they either have come to a place of security or they don't. The answer to your question? Likely both- you are insecure and have problems which cause you to constantly need external reinforcement, AND you likely pick doms that are harsh and not able to handle your special needs. < hijack> LA, Do you need a hug or did someone pee in your cheerios this morning?..... that was rather harsh and so have a few of your other posts today been as well.... gives you a chocolate lolli and some midol n runs the fuck away [:D]

kiska -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 2:20:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: kiska I'm the kind of person who wants to talk about EVERYTHING. I've found my biggest communication struggle is when the dominant feels like things have been explained sufficiently enough and he doesn't want to discuss it anymore but I'm still going over it in my head. I sometimes wonder if thats just a guy thing or if maybe I'm simply choosing the wrong dominants or do I just talk too much? [:)] A) Nearly every single submissive when they first start out is completely impatient. in two years they either learn patience or they don't call themselves a submissive anymore. B) Nearly every single submissive when they first start out is insecure about who they are in the scene and overthinks EVERYTHING. In two years they either have come to a place of security or they don't. The answer to your question? Likely both- you are insecure and have problems which cause you to constantly need external reinforcement, AND you likely pick doms that are harsh and not able to handle your special needs. I'm a special needs pet ... lol On petfinder they have an icon for 'special needs pets' ... Probably something thats only funny to me because I work with 'special needs' animals so much ...

diamonddreamlove -> RE: Saying 'No!' (6/15/2006 2:26:09 PM)
i can't imagine just saying no without some other communication going on. But then perhaps i just have not been asked to do something i thought no was important to say during a scene or otherwise lol. Sides that is what a nice safe word is about so i use them and if nothing else a nice yellow means slow down lets talk.

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