The new Face of China (Full Version)

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DomYngBlk -> The new Face of China (11/14/2012 7:35:55 PM)

Xi Jinping takes over the reigns of the PRC today. Status Quo or Real Change?

http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/chinas-xi-jinping-set-take-over-communist-party-3




cloudboy -> RE: The new Face of China (11/14/2012 9:40:03 PM)


China to me is a complicated country. With so many people, its important to have order and rule of law. So, I see a continuation of order and rule of law -- through Communist Party control, coupled with economic liberty and limited civil liberties.




tweakabelle -> RE: The new Face of China (11/14/2012 10:14:36 PM)

You would never guess it from the media coverage, but the change in the guard in Beijing is of roughly equal importance to the recent US Presidential election. It's yet another indication of how unbalanced and Western-centred our 'free press' in the West is.

China, with its billion plus people, is the world's second biggest economy. Within a decade or two, it will overtake the US economy to become the world's biggest. China's purchase of US T-bonds has kept the US afloat for recent years. It is often referred to as the world's "factory".

We really need to know what is happening inside China, and our media are failing badly in their role of keeping us informed about events in that enormous country. The shift in power and wealth from West to East is happening in front of our eyes and it's vital that we are fully informed about events in the 'Middle Kingdom'.




tazzygirl -> RE: The new Face of China (11/14/2012 11:27:05 PM)

quote:

China, with its billion plus people, is the world's second biggest economy. Within a decade or two, it will overtake the US economy to become the world's biggest. China's purchase of US T-bonds has kept the US afloat for recent years. It is often referred to as the world's "factory".


In the past two years China has sold off some of its T-bonds....




YN -> RE: The new Face of China (11/14/2012 11:37:33 PM)

Status quo and evolution is a better description.

Here is a nice analysis - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NK14Ad01.html




DomYngBlk -> RE: The new Face of China (11/15/2012 4:37:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

You would never guess it from the media coverage, but the change in the guard in Beijing is of roughly equal importance to the recent US Presidential election. It's yet another indication of how unbalanced and Western-centred our 'free press' in the West is.

China, with its billion plus people, is the world's second biggest economy. Within a decade or two, it will overtake the US economy to become the world's biggest. China's purchase of US T-bonds has kept the US afloat for recent years. It is often referred to as the world's "factory".

We really need to know what is happening inside China, and our media are failing badly in their role of keeping us informed about events in that enormous country. The shift in power and wealth from West to East is happening in front of our eyes and it's vital that we are fully informed about events in the 'Middle Kingdom'.


It is wishful thinking that the press whether US or International would be able to penetrate China enough to get what is going on within the PRC Gov't. It just isn't plausible.

I don't really agree that they are within decades of taking over the US Economy in size. That would assume ours will not grow at all. Or that there will be no setbacks there. The over growth driven by hosting the Olympics is long gone and they are living on a lower plain of growth right now. Time will tell if this is enough to keep employment in check and allow them to grow the middle class more.

What I think we fail to see from our view is the age old disputes they have with other countries in the region. Whether those disputes are closed or simply boiling beneath the surface. Those things could cause the US and the West real problems.

One thing that I do agree with is that we need to talk about China more, explore where they are and why and what effects that will have on us.




Aswad -> RE: The new Face of China (11/15/2012 12:13:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

You would never guess it from the media coverage, but the change in the guard in Beijing is of roughly equal importance to the recent US Presidential election. It's yet another indication of how unbalanced and Western-centred our 'free press' in the West is.


It's damn near the only thing in the news here, now, save for the Israeli attack on Palestine.

quote:

Within a decade or two, it will overtake the US economy to become the world's biggest.


They still have more than a few issues to contend with when the wall between their internal and external economies comes down.

But, yes.

quote:

China's purchase of US T-bonds has kept the US afloat for recent years.


Partly. It's also been argued somewhat convincingly that China effectively caused the recent recession.

quote:

It is often referred to as the world's "factory".


This is changing.

quote:

We really need to know what is happening inside China, and our media are failing badly in their role of keeping us informed about events in that enormous country. The shift in power and wealth from West to East is happening in front of our eyes and it's vital that we are fully informed about events in the 'Middle Kingdom'.


I would definitely like to hear more about China and India.

In a short while, not knowing that Shenzheng City lies in Guangdong province will be like not knowing Canada is a part of North America (well, nothing new there for a lot of US citizens, it seems, but the point stands for the rest of us). There are a lot of fields where no nation in the West can even hope to deliver the sort of services and products you can get in Shenzheng, or at least not on a similar scale. Heck, some of their supermarkets carry parts I can't get around these parts without a dinner with my local Sony representative.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




DesideriScuri -> RE: The new Face of China (11/15/2012 12:31:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
China's purchase of US T-bonds has kept the US afloat for recent years.

Partly. It's also been argued somewhat convincingly that China effectively caused the recent recession.
IWYW,
— Aswad.


How does that argument go?




Aswad -> RE: The new Face of China (11/15/2012 3:36:57 PM)

You can read a summary of it here (link).

The source is Heleen Mees.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




Politesub53 -> RE: The new Face of China (11/15/2012 4:11:49 PM)

An interesting choice I think. He needs to get a grip on the economy and corruption, if China is able to operate in the global world. He has vowed to do both.

His father was Xi Zhongxun who was one of the early communist leaders. He was a moderate who was later jailed during the Cultural Revolution of the late sixties. I am guessing his son will also be a moderate and aware of a need to modernise Chinas politics.




Edwynn -> RE: The new Face of China (11/15/2012 7:44:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

You would never guess it from the media coverage, but the change in the guard in Beijing is of roughly equal importance to the recent US Presidential election. It's yet another indication of how unbalanced and Western-centred our 'free press' in the West is.

China, with its billion plus people, is the world's second biggest economy. Within a decade or two, it will overtake the US economy to become the world's biggest. China's purchase of US T-bonds has kept the US afloat for recent years. It is often referred to as the world's "factory".

We really need to know what is happening inside China, and our media are failing badly in their role of keeping us informed about events in that enormous country. The shift in power and wealth from West to East is happening in front of our eyes and it's vital that we are fully informed about events in the 'Middle Kingdom'.


It is wishful thinking that the press whether US or International would be able to penetrate China enough to get what is going on within the PRC Gov't. It just isn't plausible.

I don't really agree that they are within decades of taking over the US Economy in size. That would assume ours will not grow at all. Or that there will be no setbacks there. The over growth driven by hosting the Olympics is long gone and they are living on a lower plain of growth right now. Time will tell if this is enough to keep employment in check and allow them to grow the middle class more.

What I think we fail to see from our view is the age old disputes they have with other countries in the region. Whether those disputes are closed or simply boiling beneath the surface. Those things could cause the US and the West real problems.

One thing that I do agree with is that we need to talk about China more, explore where they are and why and what effects that will have on us.



Well, at least you're paying attention, in a manner that more people need to be paying attention, instead of being antagonistic, for its own sake.

In my international econ class, (which, people should know; the universities were far ahead of Guantanamo, regarding torture, the uni being test ground for that), I had to write a paper on the Chinese domestic economy, which means I actually had to do some research of some sort.

They still have the "five year plan" thing in place. But aside the (still existent) Communist Party still held together ( because it's still about power, howevermuch the actions of the US woke them up to that fact or not), we are seeing a new way of doing "Capitalism."


They have to worry about domestic inflation, and, as counter-intuitive as this might be, local wages and appreciation of the yuan are the remedies to that. The mild recessions in the US
in the fifties had mostly to do with greater productivity resulting in temporary over capacity, from which such recession was ultimately alleviated when the proceeds of that greater productivity was parceled out to the workers (or, at least some of them).


This is what China is going through now. It is not going to be a neat process, they are still relentlessly commodity-grabbing, as we speak. But they are making a F*ck of a lot less noise about it than the US, or the Brits did most recently before that.








idogaydrugs -> RE: The new Face of China (11/15/2012 8:00:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

An interesting choice I think. He needs to get a grip on the economy and corruption, if China is able to operate in the global world. He has vowed to do both.

His father was Xi Zhongxun who was one of the early communist leaders. He was a moderate who was later jailed during the Cultural Revolution of the late sixties. I am guessing his son will also be a moderate and aware of a need to modernise Chinas politics.

Jinping's administration is believed to be a very conservative one. The suggestion of "getting a grip" on the corruption seems to confirm this. Party officials are making so much cash out there, they are becoming China's own nomenklatura. Well, maybe oligarchs ala modern Russia would be a more fitting comparison, what with the economic liberalizations put in place.

I agree that it's pretty important to keep track of changes within China. We're on the 4th generation of leaders since the era of Mao (5th including him), this one's in for ten years... seeing what the ones before him have accomplished in such a relatively short period of time (since the proper reforms came about after Mao), it will be interesting to see how the next ten years ago.

It's probably China's century.




DesideriScuri -> RE: The new Face of China (11/15/2012 8:38:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
You can read a summary of it here (link).
The source is Heleen Mees.
IWYW,
— Aswad.


Very interesting read. Thank you for the link.




Aswad -> RE: The new Face of China (11/16/2012 8:21:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Very interesting read. Thank you for the link.


You're welcome, of course.

I'll note that I'm not sufficiently familiar wtih the matter to guess at the credibility of her conclusions, but it's an interesting datapoint, I think.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




YN -> RE: The new Face of China (11/16/2012 8:27:33 AM)

To say low interests rates by Chinese savers and banks occasioned the wild irresponsibility in the Anglo-American banking and financial systems, is the economic version of the "short skirt" defense claimed by certain rapists.

Not that the Chinese banking and financial mandarins were not aware of the likely effects.




YN -> RE: The new Face of China (11/16/2012 8:29:28 AM)

It appears that Xi will have six orthodox communist technocrats to staff his Politburo Standing Committee.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: The new Face of China (11/16/2012 4:52:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Xi Jinping takes over the reigns of the PRC today. Status Quo or Real Change?

http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/chinas-xi-jinping-set-take-over-communist-party-3


New government, with new folks and new ideas in charge.

10 years will answer your question.

Presuming equivalency (or not) now is the postulate of asking "old car, new paint job....value in 3 years?"




LookieNoNookie -> RE: The new Face of China (11/16/2012 4:55:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

China, with its billion plus people, is the world's second biggest economy. Within a decade or two, it will overtake the US economy to become the world's biggest. China's purchase of US T-bonds has kept the US afloat for recent years. It is often referred to as the world's "factory".


In the past two years China has sold off some of its T-bonds....


So has Japan, Israel, Saudi Arabia and others.

China's holdings of Treasuries since 2010 is still up 173%.

I used all my toilet paper on the current roll 2 days ago.

I still plan on wiping my ass, with a fresh roll.




stellauk -> RE: The new Face of China (11/16/2012 9:45:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

He needs to get a grip on the economy and corruption



A bit like David Cameron then, don't you think?




tazzygirl -> RE: The new Face of China (11/16/2012 10:21:05 PM)

quote:

So has Japan, Israel, Saudi Arabia and others.

China's holdings of Treasuries since 2010 is still up 173%.

I used all my toilet paper on the current roll 2 days ago.

I still plan on wiping my ass, with a fresh roll.


And yet China only holds 10% of the total debt.




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