RE: Helping newbies (Full Version)

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BreakMeShakeMe -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:04:00 AM)

LOL RS... I agree..... I take the same stance when approached with abussive situations.. I'll help once... you go back... i'm done... same as with "newbies".. (yep ...like most.. hate that word too)...but when you see the same thing over and over again... you kinda want to throw hands up in defeat... 



LadyHugs -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:06:22 AM)

Dear Reflectivesoul, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In my travels and interactions with those new in the experience of BDSM, S&M, M/s and or D/s; those who share information are limited by the amount of information they have to offer.  For some, there is much more information, knowledge, skills as to be yet untapped, so when they do share a large amount of information and such, they have a lot more in reserve to share and or keep close to the vest.
 
I often ponder why I do bother.  However, I am of the thought that, if I help just one person succeed or perhaps open up different ways to see something as to give them perspectives that have not been touched, I have purpose.  I can only offer my thoughts based on my own experiences, knowledge and skills to which I borrow from many venues I have interests in.  It is up to the student to make the information I depart with to them, to make it theirs.
 
Newbies, to which I prefer to refer to as novices, are big draws from one's energy.  They are like a bouncing ball in all directions, lots of questions and impatient to go through steps to learn it the "tried and true" methods of those training, giving lessons, workshops and such.
Until the novice is able to fly on their own, we're on a 'stand-by' status as to pick them up when they fall and or fail.  Coaching them and cheering them on.
 
There comes a time, where time has passed so quickly past, that you find yourself without or have caused the slave to be ignored or unfed.  This isn't fair either.  This is why, the in between stages of finding a long term slave, I can focus without guilt and or reservation on helping others through education.  Future slaves will understand that I do enjoy teaching, sharing and helping others but, my principle duty will be my slave.
 
But, until that time--I will give all I can to help others find joy in their lives and success in being the person they are.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:09:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TolerableCruelty

we already had a somewhat in length discussion on this last night, RS.... and I think I'm still going to stand firm on My position from here on out.

8 years in this so far, and everything I've learned from it has been on My own... whether it be from simply being a "wallflower" and watching the interactions between others in the early days... to actual trial and error when it comes to relationships and hands on techniques.

Like beth says... its like being a parent. Noone can teach you how to do it, you have to learn it on your own. Perhaps we can share experiences, but I'm done holding someones hand and walking them through the simplest or complex  proceedings anymore. Like being a parent, its inherent... you either have the instinct to survive in this lifestyle and progress... or you don't.

I learned on My own... no reason the newbies can't do the same.
I'm not handing anything over to them on a silver platter anymore.

T.R.

~Soon to be upgraded to elitest and snob~


TR,
 
I'm glad that you and beth were around last night its nice to have sounding boards sometimes. I am finding more and more that I maybe dont want to help anymore. Like we were talking about last night I nearly got bashed out of the rooms when I was a newbie to online but I had to fight on My own to even be able to stay in the room without getting booted. In all the time I spent in those rooms before they fell apart I earned my way, and untill I had earned my way not one single person dared to help me, which funny enough is why I have helped so many people... but I guess I'm just tired now....
 



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:15:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

It is difficult when we give the same advice over and over again and it falls on deaf ears.  Things we tell them, in their best interest, such as "don't rush", "don't take a collar after the first meet", "ask some more questions", "follow your gut", "don't gush about your new relationship, because that is (many times) the kiss o'death", "don't make hasty relocation decisions", etc.  My frustration falls in those areas.


but god forbid someone actually cares about someones best interests anymore.... about the time you do its thrown back in your face that you're just interfering and being an ogre... but at the same time they came asking for the help.... ugh...



LadyHugs -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:16:09 AM)

Dear Reflectivesoul,
 
Lass, you are a giver--not a taker.  That is why you are so weary.  You have nobody to give to you as to fill your cup per se.  So, giving until your well is dry is what appears to be happening.
 
Indeed, you need to know when to slow the pace and replentish yourself.  It is ok to give permission to your 'giving' heart, mind and soul to 'take.'  It might come from other peers or elsewhere but, until you are full again the giving is more of a strain and struggle.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:18:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DivaZya

Morning Reflective soul ~
I continue helping coz that's the way I AM. I've realized I'm an enhancer - just like any other Super Hero, 'with great power comes great responsibility' *snickers*
Right, I don't know everything, but I have a network of Friends in the Lifestyle as well as My own Life Experience and I enjoy learning from those that come to Me.
Right again, guiding, offering direction and suggestions can get to be a little frustrating when over and over the novices seem bound & determined to go about choosing & meeting so haphazardly!
Still, I believe that My guidance and directives can mean the difference between life & death.
Ever lost even an aquaintance and thought, "it didn't have to end that way - I could have said something?"




No, and I pray I never do. I have always been the friend that carries everyones problems and so I would hope that none of the actual are able to say that " I wish someone had listened" because I always help my friends come hell or high water.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:27:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul
Like we were talking about last night I nearly got bashed out of the rooms when I was a newbie to online but I had to fight on My own to even be able to stay in the room without getting booted.

Cyber chat structure is COMPLETELY different from cyber discussion structure.  The pecking order is far more fierce, the pace is quicker, and the ability to make digs at people is far more supported by the background intricate drama-webs of the regulars.  Newbies are shunned as competition and viewed as opportunities to peacock- stinging and creative insults are honored.

Discussion structure makes things far more permanent- leading to far more careful choosing of words and tactics.  Drama-webs are harder to build and maintain which support regular insults.  Perceptions and personalities are formed with more solid perspectives and ones ability to debate and discuss takes priority over creativity with "zingers" or "cyber pool party" antics.



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:30:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dear Reflectivesoul,
 
Lass, you are a giver--not a taker.  That is why you are so weary.  You have nobody to give to you as to fill your cup per se.  So, giving until your well is dry is what appears to be happening.
 
Indeed, you need to know when to slow the pace and replentish yourself.  It is ok to give permission to your 'giving' heart, mind and soul to 'take.'  It might come from other peers or elsewhere but, until you are full again the giving is more of a strain and struggle.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs


I dont know what to say other than thank you...
 



KatyLied -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:35:36 AM)

quote:

being an ogre


Well....at least you are a pretty ogre!

[8D]



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:36:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

being an ogre


Well....at least you are a pretty ogre!

[8D]



*chuckles* atleast you didnt say die damnit and poke me with a pitch fork lol *hugs*



KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:38:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

For those of you that do help, why do you continue?



Why?  To repay, in the only way possible, the debt owed to those who have gone before, and took the time to reach back, and hlep when I was new.



CrappyDom -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:43:53 AM)

Reflectivesoul,

Just to play the devil's advocate here, perhaps part of the issue lies within yourself.  I see something of a pattern here.

quote:

what bugs me so bad is spending hours and hours with someone, adjusting schedules to be available to that person, then getting accused of being a horrid person... thats always nice


quote:

  but god forbid someone actually cares about someones best interests anymore.... about the time you do its thrown back in your face that you're just interfering and being an ogre


While I truly believe you are anything but an ogre, if you have a pattern of selecting people who then turn around and object to how you express your concern, you are part of this pattern.  Whether it is simply choosing drama laden people and or expressing your help in controlling ways, it is something you might take the time to look at. 

If I do it twice it might be a pattern, if I do it three times, ITS a pattern...



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:47:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul
Like we were talking about last night I nearly got bashed out of the rooms when I was a newbie to online but I had to fight on My own to even be able to stay in the room without getting booted.

Cyber chat structure is COMPLETELY different from cyber discussion structure.  The pecking order is far more fierce, the pace is quicker, and the ability to make digs at people is far more supported by the background intricate drama-webs of the regulars.  Newbies are shunned as competition and viewed as opportunities to peacock- stinging and creative insults are honored.

Discussion structure makes things far more permanent- leading to far more careful choosing of words and tactics.  Drama-webs are harder to build and maintain which support regular insults.  Perceptions and personalities are formed with more solid perspectives and ones ability to debate and discuss takes priority over creativity with "zingers" or "cyber pool party" antics.


Uh huh and since this is a discussion board and not a chat room I suppose there is another reason why the "zingers" and "pool party" antics still continue?
 
Ya know seeing that the entire post that snip was taken from was addressed to someone else and you know nothing about the rest of the discussion between myself and the other individual but still seem to want to add your own zingers to it.... hmmmm ok...that pecking order seems a bit off unless by some chance TR suddenly became LA while I was gone getting a cuppa coffee? 



marieToo -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:49:40 AM)

First time I stepped out into wiitwd, I was in over my head....I was torn to shreds and it took me a couple of years to put it back together again.  I had warnings.  But I made bad choices.  And I paid the price.  Like TC said, you have to learn it on your own, by experience;  like any other important relationship lessons, whether "vanilla" or otherwise.   We dont often learn from listening to advice.  However, there are times when someone is sort of too close to a situation to see clearly. ie....the thread from last night where this new girl is getting worked over by some dude who wants a commitment from her, after talking to her for 2 wks online. He wanted to move to be with her etc etc. Im not going to restate the whole situation here, but the girl told a story that had about 20 different people telling her to back out ASAP, because there were so many red flags. Sometimes, you just get too damn caught up and you cant see the forest for the trees, and its good to have other people read your situation and confirm your doubts.  I dont think it can be of any harm to help others along the way.  But I do think ultimately people will do what they want to do, even when they know they're making a poor choice.  Then after they get kicked in the ass, the lesson is learned.  But wtf, if someone can keep one newbie from having a whackjob show up on her porch, why not warn them?  Sorry to say this, but sometimes even smart people make stupid choices, no matter what you tell them.  But on the other hand,  I have also seen *plenty* of people heed and consider some advice given on these boards,  



iliv2servher -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:52:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

For the last 4 and a half years I have taken a bit of pride in always helping newbies where I felt I could. Being that this year makes 9 years within WIITWD I have always felt confident in being able to help someone to be able to look within themselves to see what it is they are looking for, to point them in the right directions if there was something I didnt know. Which is a lot I make no claims to know it all about anything, I still learn from just about every person I come into contact with. Thats the way I was always taught and thought it was supposed to work.
 
Since starting here at CM I have seen many people that blatantly oppose helping newbies or that just dont get involved. I wish I could say that I dont understand that, but the more time I have personally invested in trying to help out and watching it get thrown in my face has given me pause to question why I even bother.
 
For those of you that dont help with newbies, is there a specific reason why you stopped? For those of you that do help, why do you continue?


'Ya know...this is one of my pet peeves.  I'm not saying that everyone should try to be a teacher, but it is really to our benefit as a community (and I'll no doubt get slammed for calling this place a "community").  How are we going to grow as a society without sharing our own experiences with new people? 

Back in the hayday of IRC, we used to use our channels as platforms for the exchange of knowledge.   People who were new to the scene often stopped by and were encouraged to ask questions. Of course we were not the highest authority, but then I never suggested that people who were new to the scene simply accept what I or others have to say as fact.  Any intelligent person knows better than to form their opinions on one source and one source alone.  Read everything you can and decide for yourself.

I think that it's a bad choice to cast people out or to simply ignore them because they are new and curious.
 



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:52:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Reflectivesoul,

Just to play the devil's advocate here, perhaps part of the issue lies within yourself.  I see something of a pattern here.

quote:

what bugs me so bad is spending hours and hours with someone, adjusting schedules to be available to that person, then getting accused of being a horrid person... thats always nice


quote:

  but god forbid someone actually cares about someones best interests anymore.... about the time you do its thrown back in your face that you're just interfering and being an ogre


While I truly believe you are anything but an ogre, if you have a pattern of selecting people who then turn around and object to how you express your concern, you are part of this pattern.  Whether it is simply choosing drama laden people and or expressing your help in controlling ways, it is something you might take the time to look at. 

If I do it twice it might be a pattern, if I do it three times, ITS a pattern...


Well seeing that I never said EVERYONE is like that....
 
but yeah I have had my fair share of getting dumped on, just has everyone else thats ever had a relationship with other people on any level. You cant just auto pick who is good and who isnt.... but yeah I do tend to take it personally when I have busted my ass to change my life around to help or be available to someone else then have it thrown back in my face. Up untill that point there is usually no indication that it will happen, so if its a patern to help people and sometimes get shit on in the process then yep thats me and I'll raise my hand and admit it whole heartedly.
 
And No I do not go out of my way to select drama laden people but sometimes yes I am guilty of getting involved in someone elses drama or accepting to help someone that has drama, funny thing is that the ones I knew had drama and were in a bad place are some of the best friends I have no and would never imagine back stabbing or something else. funny how that works out sometimes...



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:56:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul
Uh huh and since this is a discussion board and not a chat room I suppose there is another reason why the "zingers" and "pool party" antics still continue?

I said "takes priority over."  That doesn't mean that the antics disappear or have no value in terms of social status.

quote:

Ya know seeing that the entire post that snip was taken from was addressed to someone else and you know nothing about the rest of the discussion between myself and the other individual but still seem to want to add your own zingers to it.... hmmmm ok...that pecking order seems a bit off unless by some chance TR suddenly became LA while I was gone getting a cuppa coffee? 

Why did you take that as me zinging you?  I was offering a reason why you had a bad chat experience when you came in as a newbie.  It was a tangent to the topic, but does also explain why some people don't really help out clueless newbies when they come into a chat room.

Cyber interaction dynamics is one of my main hobbies, I enjoy examining and discussing them.  There's a surprising amount of work already done on this topic which I think could be very useful for people to check out if they want to maximize their online experience.  Understanding the different ways people process information and form relationships with people online vs offline is fascinating to me.



KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 11:57:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

It is difficult .....over and over again .....deaf ears., .....in their best interest, ..........  My frustration .....falls in those areas.


but god forbid someone actually cares..... someones best interests.....
anymore.... ..... thrown back in your face ..... just interfering a..... at the same time they came asking for the help....



My days as the white knight, Lord Savaho, are long past.  But I did learn a few important things.

Most who ask for help, are actually seeking validation, and actual efforts to help will be met with hostility and anger.

Those who are not seeking validation, are most likely looking for somebody to provide them with what they consider a good excuse for failure.  Stand in the way of somebody bent on self destruction, and they WILL take you with them.

The tiny percentage remainder, wants to have a reasonable out from the situation, that they will not take, so they may become a martyr in the little movie in their heads that passes for their lives.

Every now and again, you will find somebody worrth helping.  If you havn't wasted all your energy and resources trying to help the first three groups.
There is a simple test to determine what group somebody asking for help or advice happens to fall into.  Ignore the results of this test at your own hazard, it's proved nearly 100% accurate.

Never lift a finger to help, until the person asking for assistance, has completed at least one small service for you, that involves pushing away from the keyboard and leaving the house.
If they cannot accomplish that, they their desire to be where they are, far outweighs any other consideration.



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 12:05:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iliv2servher

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

For the last 4 and a half years I have taken a bit of pride in always helping newbies where I felt I could. Being that this year makes 9 years within WIITWD I have always felt confident in being able to help someone to be able to look within themselves to see what it is they are looking for, to point them in the right directions if there was something I didnt know. Which is a lot I make no claims to know it all about anything, I still learn from just about every person I come into contact with. Thats the way I was always taught and thought it was supposed to work.
 
Since starting here at CM I have seen many people that blatantly oppose helping newbies or that just dont get involved. I wish I could say that I dont understand that, but the more time I have personally invested in trying to help out and watching it get thrown in my face has given me pause to question why I even bother.
 
For those of you that dont help with newbies, is there a specific reason why you stopped? For those of you that do help, why do you continue?


'Ya know...this is one of my pet peeves.  I'm not saying that everyone should try to be a teacher, but it is really to our benefit as a community (and I'll no doubt get slammed for calling this place a "community").  How are we going to grow as a society without sharing our own experiences with new people? 

Back in the hayday of IRC, we used to use our channels as platforms for the exchange of knowledge.   People who were new to the scene often stopped by and were encouraged to ask questions. Of course we were not the highest authority, but then I never suggested that people who were new to the scene simply accept what I or others have to say as fact.  Any intelligent person knows better than to form their opinions on one source and one source alone.  Read everything you can and decide for yourself.

I think that it's a bad choice to cast people out or to simply ignore them because they are new and curious.






I think now with so many newbies its hard to see which are actually here and want to learn or which are just here for kink right off the bat. Thats not a fault exactly cause a lot of times some may not know what they want, hell most when they are new dont. I guess its the getting wrapped up in helping thats the issue... I think I liked the whole situation better when I didnt get involved though and just gave people information and shoved them down the road. Saved a lot of heartache and headaches. At the same time though one of the girls I helped train and who I taught has been collared now with her Dom for like 3 years, she called me last week to say thanks and to let me know how she was doing and that their anniversary was coming up... and I was proud of her and proud that I had a hand in it.
 
Theres nothing quite like watching one that you helped so much and that found what they needed and getting to watch them grow further and to be happy within themselves....there is a definate amount of pride in that.
 
I wish I could say that I help people because of all of the help I have gotten, but thats just simply not the case from when I was new. Granted now there are a few that I can smile greatfully at and say a big thank you because they did take the time to help me with something. ( T/they know who they are [:D])
 
In the long run I know me better than anyone and I'll still help its just the way it is lol.... but ooooo I get frusterated sometimes and its nice to be able to vent[:)]



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Helping newbies (6/16/2006 12:11:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul
Uh huh and since this is a discussion board and not a chat room I suppose there is another reason why the "zingers" and "pool party" antics still continue?

I said "takes priority over."  That doesn't mean that the antics disappear or have no value in terms of social status.

quote:

Ya know seeing that the entire post that snip was taken from was addressed to someone else and you know nothing about the rest of the discussion between myself and the other individual but still seem to want to add your own zingers to it.... hmmmm ok...that pecking order seems a bit off unless by some chance TR suddenly became LA while I was gone getting a cuppa coffee? 

Why did you take that as me zinging you?  I was offering a reason why you had a bad chat experience when you came in as a newbie.  It was a tangent to the topic, but does also explain why some people don't really help out clueless newbies when they come into a chat room.

Cyber interaction dynamics is one of my main hobbies, I enjoy examining and discussing them.  There's a surprising amount of work already done on this topic which I think could be very useful for people to check out if they want to maximize their online experience.  Understanding the different ways people process information and form relationships with people online vs offline is fascinating to me.


It was something directed at someone else entirely and a conversation you were not privy too and had no idea where or what the point of it was... period. I didnt ask hey whats everyones theories as to why this happened like that.
 
I also know the differences between the different online communication types.... and as another point to it that was 4 and a half years ago and I wasnt a clueless newbie when I came on board. I had 4 and a half years r/t under my belt when I started chatting online.
 
Aso to be perfectly honest the reason I got slammed so bad is because of my age... not because of being a newbie... thats also a part of the conversation you werent privy too...



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