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[Poll]

No New Tax Pledge


good for them, ignore the pledge
  7% (2)
we're taxed enough, keep saying no
  17% (5)
they never should have signed it to begin with
  64% (18)
traitors!
  3% (1)
he's just pissed because he was named "Grover"
  7% (2)


Total Votes : 28
(last vote on : 11/26/2012 4:26:13 AM)
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No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 12:11:50 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/23/politics/fiscal-cliff/index.html?c=us


Some republicans are backing away from Norquist and his pledge. Good idea?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots
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RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 12:25:11 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		You cant pay off debt without some combination of increasing income and decreasing spending.

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 1:10:30 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		They never should have signed it to begin with.

Not, because, I think taxes should be increased. A congressman is supposed to represent all of his constituents, not just a loud, obnoxious few. A little flexibility in dealing with situations is needed. A policy that works this week might not work next week due to changing circumstances. If I were to ever run for office (not gonna happen but for the sake of argument) I would turn down all demands/offers to sign pledges on principle. I would ask them, "who the fuck are you to shackle me into only one position? Who the fuck are you to demand that I ignore other people's ideas and adhere only to yours?"

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 1:35:39 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I guess it's better than having lobbyists operate in secrecy. But I want elected officials to have the flexibility to do what's best without any pledges.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 5:43:47 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You cant pay off debt without some combination of increasing income and decreasing spending.


That all depends on how much you're spending and how much income is there. Considering we're at record levels of income, can't you even imagine that it would be possible to cut back on spending? I'm willing to bet that you were pissed at W's spending, so you have to be beside yourself with the level of Obama's spending.

That being said, I'm with Boehner in not raising the tax rates. Like him, I am also okay with loopholes being cut. Would this not constitute an increase in income? Other than defense, where are you going to make cuts?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 5:47:14 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You cant pay off debt without some combination of increasing income and decreasing spending.


That all depends on how much you're spending and how much income is there. Considering we're at record levels of income, can't you even imagine that it would be possible to cut back on spending? I'm willing to bet that you were pissed at W's spending, so you have to be beside yourself with the level of Obama's spending.

That being said, I'm with Boehner in not raising the tax rates. Like him, I am also okay with loopholes being cut. Would this not constitute an increase in income? Other than defense, where are you going to make cuts?

Wouldn't cutting loopholes effectively be a tax increase?
As for increased spending, yes, I am pissed.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 5:48:00 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Hell, we know they dont raise taxes, but I just wish someone would get republicans to pledge to never drive us into debt again.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 5:49:55 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I want elected officials to have the flexibility to do what's best without any pledges.



This

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 5:50:25 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

That being said, I'm with Boehner in not raising the tax rates. Like him, I am also okay with loopholes being cut.


Cutting loopholes will raise taxes.

Just more damn double talk.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 5:59:56 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You cant pay off debt without some combination of increasing income and decreasing spending.

That all depends on how much you're spending and how much income is there. Considering we're at record levels of income, can't you even imagine that it would be possible to cut back on spending? I'm willing to bet that you were pissed at W's spending, so you have to be beside yourself with the level of Obama's spending.
That being said, I'm with Boehner in not raising the tax rates. Like him, I am also okay with loopholes being cut. Would this not constitute an increase in income? Other than defense, where are you going to make cuts?

Wouldn't cutting loopholes effectively be a tax increase?
As for increased spending, yes, I am pissed.


A tax increase, yes. A tax rate increase, no. It can be said to be an increase in the effective tax rates, but that's nothing more than some statistical argument. The tax brackets aren't being changed, so there is no rate increase.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 6:03:15 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/23/politics/fiscal-cliff/index.html?c=us


Some republicans are backing away from Norquist and his pledge. Good idea?


YES!!!!!!

So long as they demand a 3 for 1 reduction in spending.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 6:05:11 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

A tax increase, yes. A tax rate increase, no. It can be said to be an increase in the effective tax rates, but that's nothing more than some statistical argument. The tax brackets aren't being changed, so there is no rate increase.


Tell that to Mitt and Co when they are no longer paying 15%.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 6:12:59 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

That being said, I'm with Boehner in not raising the tax rates. Like him, I am also okay with loopholes being cut.

Cutting loopholes will raise taxes.
Just more damn double talk.


double talk?!? How about you continue on with your quote? I acknowledged in my very next sentence that would be a tax revenue increase.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 6:20:56 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

A tax increase, yes. A tax rate increase, no. It can be said to be an increase in the effective tax rates, but that's nothing more than some statistical argument. The tax brackets aren't being changed, so there is no rate increase.

Tell that to Mitt and Co when they are no longer paying 15%.


And, they would pay higher taxes without all the loopholes.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 6:32:00 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Tell that to Mitt and Co



Get over it.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 6:47:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		LOL

I am over it.... they wont be.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 6:52:24 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:



double talk?!? How about you continue on with your quote? I acknowledged in my very next sentence that would be a tax revenue increase.


How about we are supposed to trim quotes.

I addressed the part I needed too.

Yes, its double talk. I could get behind the tax loop hole being gone.... however in return we get this...

quote:

Boehner, the Ohio Republican who has emerged as party leader in the deficit talks, agrees to the concept of increased revenue, though he and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky both remain opposed to actually raising tax rates.

Instead, they propose broad tax reform that will lower rates while eliminating unspecified loopholes and exemptions to spur economic growth that they say will result in more overall government revenue.


Whats the point of lowering rates while deleting loopholes? It simply cancels each other out.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 7:02:06 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Whats the point of lowering rates while deleting loopholes? It simply cancels each other out.



That would depend heavily on what the new rates were, and what loopholes got closed. Drop the rates, but lose that earned income tax credit, and eliminate the mortgage interest deduction, and watch the middle class not only wind up paying more, but forcing a lot to start paying at all.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 7:16:37 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The only way to push back on the trend by which the 1% has absorbed 25% of the nation’s wealth in the years since 1979 is to make this super-wealthy cohort pay more taxes– more capital gains taxes.

Capital Gains Rate Changes Since 1978

1978; lowered from 35% to 28%
1981;lowered from 28% to 20%
1987: raised from 20% to 28%
1997: lowered from 28% to 20%
2003: lowered from 20% to 15%

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2012/11/12/resolving-fiscal-cliff-will-require-raising-capital-gains-tax-33/

Thats not the only solution. Cutting spending across the board and raising revenue is the only way. Far too many get away with paying next to nothing.. and Im not speaking of those who make next to nothing.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: No New Tax Pledge - 11/23/2012 7:28:41 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Any of you read David Kay Johnson's book on taxes called Perfectly Legal? He won a pulitzer for it and his work at the NY Times. If you havent, left or right, you will be blown away.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 20
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