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sub/slave - 11/25/2012 11:18:57 PM   
daddytrace


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline 		im new to bdsm, what is the difference between a sub and a slave?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: sub/slave - 11/25/2012 11:44:17 PM   
NeedinU


Posts: 2
Joined: 11/25/2012
Status: offline 		You will no doubt hear a number of varying views on this. Really all it comes down to is a person's mindset and how they choose to view themselves.

< Message edited by NeedinU -- 11/26/2012 12:30:58 AM >

(in reply to daddytrace)
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RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 12:22:52 AM   
Itopyrmuscle


Posts: 1
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline 		I have to agree the difference is the mindset.
A slave has little or no choice
a submissive submits to his DOM/DOMME--giving his mind and body and in my mind a submissive still has choice

(in reply to daddytrace)
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RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 12:24:42 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddytrace

im new to bdsm, what is the difference between a sub and a slave?

Two letters?

Ask a dozen people and you'll get a dozen answers and a debate that will outlive the cockroaches.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to daddytrace)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 6:22:29 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		The difference between a submissive and a slave is the difference between nothing. Its a label, its like "red" or "fun".

The real difference comes in how well you create your relationships

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 6:36:33 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		There is none. One person could be a submissive in one Dom's eyes, and a slave in anothers.

Theoretically... a sub retains choices, a slave does not.

In reality... its whatever the owner decides to call them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to daddytrace)
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RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 8:51:51 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddytrace
im new to bdsm, what is the difference between a sub and a slave?

Both labels are undefined and arbitrary. There is no effective difference between them. I like SimplyMichael's answer...

The real difference comes in how well you create your relationships.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to daddytrace)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 12:37:13 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		While accepting the mindset and arbitrary explanation, I would say there is a difference for me personally. I approach life from a submissive frame of reference with the trust remaining in myself and the decisions as completely mine. When I have developed deep trust and find myself caring very much for the welfare of the other, then I have arrived at slavehood. I lose the excuses to refuse and I lose the choice to refuse that which my partner needs from me. I gain a deep, secure, caring relationship with another person that I both respect and care about. By that definition I am slave to my vanilla, very non dominant husband even if he doesn't see it that way. BDSM-land probably wouldn't agree either.

Oh, and I am of the opinion that you can serve two masters if both are sane, credible people who are the right fit for you. There should be little to no conflict. Then again, I know from the other side of the site that I am not weal or twue.

SD

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 2:54:35 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Well yes.. I agree. Like everyone else I have a distinction that I use for my own personal purposes.

MY (non-existent) sub is someone with whom one negotiates some sort of agreement then gains consent and then the sub [hopefully] more or less obeys within the terms of the contract.

My (actual) slave is someone with whom there was no negotiation or consent (in the way it's meant here) and then the slave obeys every command given until they choose release instead (which would indicate she'd become un-mastered anyway and therefor it's ridiculous to treat her like a slave). Carol, however, would probably write it much like SacredDepravity.

Oh, SD... by your definition I'm slave to Carol -- I'm pretty good with that though :) Seriously, I don't exactly have much "choice" in terms of meeting her needs any more than I have much "choice" in breathing. Both are technically optional. Both have strongly negative consequences.



_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to SacredDepravity)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 2:59:50 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		You know saying stuff like that does nothing toward getting your Domly Dom card reinstated, don't you? I thought that was important to you! Bad slave!

SD

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 3:02:02 PM   
noellesdestiny


Posts: 94
Joined: 9/3/2012
Status: offline 		For me its an automatic feeling. Instinctual.

(in reply to SacredDepravity)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 3:05:54 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		For me, feeling like slave and being a slave are two very different things. I am more likely to defer in life situations and in personal relationships especially as a default setting. I'm still not hitting my knees in awe and reverence for every Dom, Dick, and Masterly.

SD

(in reply to noellesdestiny)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 5:04:38 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Two letters?



Damn, you stole my answer.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 6:41:43 PM   
BambiBoi


Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Two letters?



Damn, you stole my answer.


Sub vs. Slave: Technically 4 letters, since they only share an "s."

I'm of the camp that the difference really doesn't matter so long as you're clear about your desires. When people draw a distinction, it's usually along the lines of how blindly the bottom wants to submit, to what extent the bottom's schedule is willing to change, or how much interest in planning scenes/decisions the bottom would have.

Since one word cannot fully explain one's position on these complicated matters, the title becomes irrelevant. You can have a submissive who will drop everything at the drop of a hat for the dominant, or a weekend slave.

I will say this: Be wary of anyone who makes an amateur like yourself choose one of the "two" paths.

_____________________________

<3

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 7:13:08 PM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Personally I dont differentiate from the two. In either case, I respect boundaries and limitations whether the person identifies as a slave or a submissive. Now I do like to refer to the one who serves me as a "slave" just because it has a nice ring to it. I dislike using the word "sub" to refer to someone because I feel like I should be commanding a nuclear submarine for the Navy or something like that.

(in reply to daddytrace)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: sub/slave - 11/26/2012 8:46:58 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		For me and mine, I define the differences as below.

sub: gives consent for each and every activity. Usually a sub has a Dom/Domme.

slave: gives consent once and once only. After that it is completely up to the Master/Mistress on what happens. Usually a slave has a Master/Mistress.

bottom: someone who is on the receiving end of physical sensory play. There is no power exchange. The other half is usually a Top.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: sub/slave - 11/27/2012 8:57:59 AM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
Status: offline 		Well there are many ways to interpret the difference between a sub and a slave; and you've gotten good commentary already (given that the topic is replayed more often than the national anthem). Here's a new take for you, then.

Sub: food.

Slave: makes the sub.


_____________________________

There is nothing worse than being right. Instead of being right, then, try to be open. It is more difficult, and more rewarding.


(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: sub/slave - 11/27/2012 9:46:18 AM   
PrincessDonna11


Posts: 289
Joined: 8/7/2011
Status: offline 		Yeah Ive always had to toss this one up too..someone said that a slave has no choice and let me see...they make a choice to be a slave to someone so ultimately that is a choice....a sub told me once that a slave stands at attention until told to do something and a sub is always looking for things to do..who knows but it sounded right from my experience...

(in reply to RemoteUser)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: sub/slave - 11/27/2012 11:01:19 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

Since one word cannot fully explain one's position on these complicated matters, the title becomes irrelevant. You can have a submissive who will drop everything at the drop of a hat for the dominant, or a weekend slave.



Exactly this. Words are clumsy and crude when it comes to describing and defining something as complex as the relationship between two people. At best they give us a broad starting point to help us to understand each other's point of view. It's not worth getting hung up on the definition or worrying about which box you fit into because you and whoever you end up with will need to work out the exact nuances between yourselves.

I think LittleWonder gives a really good starting point definition as to the general distinctions but there really are no hard and fast rules. The closest comparison I can think of is trying to give a word for how much you love someone. If I say I love this person 'passionately' and this person 'deeply' you still won't be able to quantify exactly what I mean, because words fall short of fully expressing human interaction. The best I can give you is an impression.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to BambiBoi)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: sub/slave - 11/27/2012 11:22:55 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna11
a sub told me once that a slave stands at attention until told to do something and a sub is always looking for things to do..who knows but it sounded right from my experience...

If Carol stood around all day at attention in a corner of the house somewhere waiting for me to tell her to do something I'd be more than a little shocked and annoyed.

In my more analytical moments I think of it like this. "Slave" means "human property". So if someone tells me they are "owned" or that they are "property" then they are a slave in my opinion. I don't care what they mean by "owned" or "property". I see relationships as a culture of two and just like any culture they can develop their own notions of property and property rights. That line of thinking is only because I my brain works like that and it has no pragmatic value. That's because there IS no pragmatic value in trying to judge other people's relationships and the terminology they use within them other than to decide if you want them as friends.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to PrincessDonna11)
Profile   Post #: 20
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