RE: Shame or Discipline?

RE: Shame or Discipline? (Full Version)

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litleone8620 -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 4:15:46 PM)
I'm not going to respond to the OP, since plenty of people have already done it, and it would feel repititous. Instead, i'm going to respond to a couple of the posts here. There seems to be an all around confusion between discipline and punishment. Discipline is used to correct a mistake, or from what i've heard, to keep a mistake from happening in the first place. Punishment is exactly what it sounds like: you're being punished for something you did wrong. I suppose i am going to comment on the OP. I haven't read the thread that the OP is talking about, so i don't know what the circumstances were. But from the questions asked by the thread starter, i can get an idea. I don't know why you care how another submissive is disciplined or punished. The fact is, it's up to the person whether or not to feel shamed. Her dominant didn't know she would feel shame (unless he's a mind reader). Do all murderers feel shame after a crime has been commited? So, do all submissives feel shame after they displease their dominants? I doubt it. Some might revel in the attention they get from punishment or discipline; even if it's negative attention. This being said, i agree with everything Playful said. You can't, and shouldn't blame somebody for trying to make you feel shame. It's all up to you whether or not you feel it. monica

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 4:53:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Now I am not in anyone else's dynamic and to each their own, but I do not mind discipline, in fact I need it! I will not tolerate being punished. Julia, get OUT of my mind! LOL I can not tell you how many times I have written these same words! I see a big difference between the two. I just wish more people understood the difference.

juliaoceania -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 4:56:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Now I am not in anyone else's dynamic and to each their own, but I do not mind discipline, in fact I need it! I will not tolerate being punished. Julia, get OUT of my mind! LOL I can not tell you how many times I have written these same words! I see a big difference between the two. I just wish more people understood the difference. All you need is One that knows the difference and they are out there... I can email you with how I used to detect those who didn't know the difference if you like? I am seeing someone who very well understands because he is disciplined within himself.... there are others out there like him

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 5:01:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: irishbynature quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross As a huge Alanis fan, I love your quote and wish more people enjoyed it, Alanis is awesome...Glad I found another fan. I love the "Collection" CD, and just about everything she writes[:D] Count me in as one more in the Alanis fan club. You see everything You see every part You see all my light And you love my dark You dig everything Of which I'm ashamed There's not anything to which you can't relate And you're still here Got a complete shiver down my spine the first time I heard her sing these words in the song Everything.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 5:04:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania All you need is One that knows the difference and they are out there... I can email you with how I used to detect those who didn't know the difference if you like? I am seeing someone who very well understands because he is disciplined within himself.... there are others out there like him Send me the email, by all means... Send me the other Doms who "get it" while you're there too, will ya? [sm=cool.gif]

Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 5:10:19 PM)
ok is this where julia stuffs all us Dominants in a box and calls Fed-Ex fora pick up . lmfao ... sorry it's beer thirty and I am having a great night .... [8D] and I feel no shame for it ...

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 5:11:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Anything for you Irish! Main Entry: 1shame [image]http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif[/image] Pronunciation: 'shAm Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old English scamu; akin to Old High German scama shame 1 a : a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety b : the susceptibility to such emotion 2 : a condition of humiliating disgrace or disrepute : IGNOMINY 3 a : something that brings censure or reproach; also : something to be regretted : PITY <it's a shame you can't go> b : a cause of feeling shame So, by this definition, a submissive is likely to feel shame, if they're a self-aware person, sincere about their submission, wouldn't you say? A dominant would'nt need to bring on increased shame unless they felt the sub didn't feel any regret for their actions. And Julia, you are definitely right about "too much shame". Toxic shame can cause very serious mental health issues.

mnottertail -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 5:20:55 PM)
you live you learn you love you learn you cry you learn you lose you learn you bleed you learn you scream you learn you grieve you learn you choke you learn you laugh you learn you choose you learn you ask you learn you pray you learn you live you learn

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 5:26:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s ok is this where julia stuffs all us Dominants in a box and calls Fed-Ex fora pick up . lmfao ... Nah, only the very intelligent ones over 40, who are single, live a life of truth and honour, and live near me... ::sighs:: No wonder I'm still a subbie-on-the-loose, I'm too picky!

smilezz -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 5:28:23 PM)
I don't get it either. Maybe it has to do with the whole "comming online to post it" thing. What shame is posting about a said discipline or punishment to people you don't know? online even! i don't get it. My shame would involve what i did to let my Master down, that i had to be punished or disciplined for that action. To hell with anyone else. No offense, but come onnnn... Ehhhhhhh, everyone's different i 'spose. Happy Friday y'all! ~smilezz~

spankmepink11 -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 5:41:08 PM)
This is just my opinion, but i have absolutely nothing against a little shame, discipline, or punishment, Of course i try never to earn the discipline or punishment....but...if we are speeding in our cars...are we not "shamed" for a brief period, having to be at the side of the road with the lights flashing....and are we not "punished" and "disciplined" by having to pay a fine....and possibly having points on our license? I'ts all the same in my mind once i've given someone that authority. As in most things the secret to success is finding the Person who's views are compatible with your own.

mnottertail -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 5:43:51 PM)
if you can catch a girl in that mood......it is powerful. will you be ready by 10 tonight? lol, i BET you didn't get that.

Level -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 5:52:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful quote: ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s ok is this where julia stuffs all us Dominants in a box and calls Fed-Ex fora pick up . lmfao ... Nah, only the very intelligent ones over 40, who are single, live a life of truth and honour, and live near me... ::sighs:: No wonder I'm still a subbie-on-the-loose, I'm too picky! hugs my friend......... nawwww, not too picky, just know what you need.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 6:00:40 PM)
In lieu of certian collarme dom(s) moving to my locale, from distant places un-Canadian, I guess I'll settle for the hug! [sm=cool.gif] quote: hugs my friend......... nawwww, not too picky, just know what you need.

feastie -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 7:27:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful Nah, only the very intelligent ones over 40, who are single, live a life of truth and honour, and live near me... ::sighs:: No wonder I'm still a subbie-on-the-loose, I'm too picky! If you find any of those, let me know. Of course, I'm no longer sure what I'd do with one anymore, but maybe it will come back to me.

Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/16/2006 7:48:07 PM)
ok if I drink a bottle of Molson and say ehh alot after I speak can I get in the box . lmaoooooo and a big hug to ya

timeoutgurlie -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/17/2006 12:41:47 AM)
For myself, I'd term it as being a disappointment in myself for being displeasing to him rather than being 'ashamed' of myself. Not sure if I'm the only one who thinks & feels the two are separate, but that's my answer anyhow [:-]

KnightofMists -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/17/2006 5:56:24 AM)
I ask simply .. Did the Shame cause the girl to feel Humbled! or did they feel Degraded! One is useful for character development and ... The other is not! For some the act you describe would be Degrading... or others is would be Humbling. I try to be cognizant of the effects that any act has on my girls and most definitely not going to condem others methods just because I don't use them or make self-elevating comments at the expense of others either. What matters is the effect! is it postive and constructive for those involved or not!?

spankmepink11 -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/17/2006 6:33:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail lol, i BET you didn't get that. [sm=meh.gif]

irishbynature -> RE: Shame or Discipline? (6/17/2006 6:58:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: litleone8620 I don't know why you care how another submissive is disciplined or punished. The fact is, it's up to the person whether or not to feel shamed. Her dominant didn't know she would feel shame (unless he's a mind reader). Do all murderers feel shame after a crime has been commited? So, do all submissives feel shame after they displease their dominants? I doubt it. Some might revel in the attention they get from punishment or discipline; even if it's negative attention. monica I hear and understand your point. However, the thread I made was about "shame vs. discipline" not punishment vs. discipline. To understand ABA (Applied Behavior Analysis), means that when someone continues to repeat an unwanted behavior, they do so to get some kind of attention, hence, the punishment isn't working. He's not punishing her, he's shaming her. The OP I took the topic from was related to a sub who continued the same behaviors and would feel shame afterwards..but shame from Him. Why do I care? I care because that person is a human being who continues to feel shame. Remorse is quite different. Guilt or remorse does keep society in-line as far as not committing crimes, etc.. Shame is quite different. I worry about Doms who get pleasure from hurting a person's self-worth, instead of building them up via caring and helping them grow, and the subs who tolerate it. I hope that made sense? Smiles Irish

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