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Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 1:08:13 AM   
Joyfulobedience


Posts: 10
Joined: 10/17/2012
Status: offline 		Looking at some other forums, generally vanilla ones, like on POF. I found that the general opinion of women in that thread, the overwhelming majority in fact, was that submissiveness in a man was a weakness, pathetic. In my post here, I'm going to mean in general, not based on sex.

In many of the female dominant profiles, as I'm sure many of you are aware, these women will talk about how they are superior, how men don't deserve them, that they are losers and such.

As a submissive male, this is actually a (major) turn-off for me. I know it takes all kinds, but I would hope that I'm not in the minority here. Before I knew what sex was, let's say as young as 2, and no I'm not kidding, I already saw girls romantically and had submissive thoughts towards any crush I had growing up. That is to say, it was not initially sexual. On the same note, I was not submissive to women in general, and responded rebelliously towards anyone who tried to control me, with few exceptions.

I don't see myself inferior at all. I know that I'm not, I'm actually pretty damn smart, kind, and I'm going places. I don't believe in gender inequality in the least, and I never have.

I see submissiveness as a strength, not a weakness, like kindness. Because it is kindness, it is romantic when you put your partner before yourself, and worship the ground they walk on. That is my personal vision of devotion. The sexuality of it did not evolve in me until later, and boy was that an awakening.

This may not always be consistent with my fetishes, But it's certainly how I feel in my most sober state of mind.

Now perhaps it can be seen as inferior when you serve only out of sexuality, and it has such a hold that it causes you lie against yourself, submit for no other reason then gratification. But at the same time, I tend to see those who would assume they are better then everyone else, or a certain gender, as somehow innately superior, as inferior.

Then again, I could be hopelessly naive, and people in their heart might want nothing more then to be worthless.
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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 1:22:33 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		The profiles you mention, that claim that women are superior - they're feeding a Female Supremacy fetish. You simply don't share that fetish. No issues.

Those women are just as poor a match for you than men would be, or lesbians, or other obvious mismatches. Just move on.

And welcome to the forums.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 1:33:26 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Please go out. Meet some real Domme/sub folks. I think you will be happier if you did.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 1:34:05 AM   
Joyfulobedience


Posts: 10
Joined: 10/17/2012
Status: offline 		Ok. But I see it in generally all fetish videos. Like there is this huge assumption that we all want to be called losers and pigs. I don't get it. I have to admit I have somewhat of a female supremacy fetish, especially for that one ideal woman I hope to someday meet. But not in general. Because that's obviously not true. Who's going to rate Paris Hilton over Gandhi? Or Bin Laden over Rosa Parks? I simply don't believe the assumption that one gender is definably superior to another.

I'm willing to go all the way to Slave, but don't assume that makes me worthless.

Thank you very much for your welcoming.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 1:35:40 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		When you went to the movie theater to see Lord of the Rings, did you expect the world to look like Middle Earth when you left the theater?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Joyfulobedience)
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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 1:45:29 AM   
Joyfulobedience


Posts: 10
Joined: 10/17/2012
Status: offline 		Good point. So I hope you are clarifying that I'm not particularly unique, in a gentle manner.

If only there was a romantic portrayal of this kind of relationship.

< Message edited by Joyfulobedience -- 12/1/2012 1:46:59 AM >

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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 1:51:26 AM   
SingingKestrel


Posts: 9
Joined: 12/1/2012
From: West Coast
Status: offline 		feminine superiority is not something i personally subscribe to but i know men who are the same way. Yes i belong to my Owner, heart, body, and soul but i am not to be veiwed as worthless or even truly a lesser person than Him. There is Someone out there who will fit your frame of mind, i am sure. Good luck!

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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 1:53:36 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfulobedience

Ok. But I see it in generally all fetish videos. Like there is this huge assumption that we all want to be called losers and pigs. I don't get it. I have to admit I have somewhat of a female supremacy fetish, especially for that one ideal woman I hope to someday meet. But not in general. Because that's obviously not true. Who's going to rate Paris Hilton over Gandhi? Or Bin Laden over Rosa Parks? I simply don't believe the assumption that one gender is definably superior to another.

I'm willing to go all the way to Slave, but don't assume that makes me worthless.

Thank you very much for your welcoming.


It appears in a lot of videos because it's a very common fetish. It sells. People making the videos want money. If there were a huge demand for fetish videos in which people covered themselves in jam and rolled around on white carpets, you can bet you'd be seeing a lot of that too.

Female supremacy as a fetish is about holding all females up on a pedestal as inherently more worthy than males. No, it doesn't make it true. But it gets a lot of dicks hard. This is also why you will see it in a lot of profiles. If I had to guess, 99% of the profiles of femdommes phrased like this are a)looking for money or b)men.

Personally (and I'm far from the most experienced person here, so people feel free to correct me) I've never known a full-time D/s couple who keep this female supremacy males-are-useless-worms thing going on outside of playtime, because it's just not practical. Most people want a partner who they love and value, and who loves and values them in return. Even if love isn't part of the dynamic, why chose someone you consider useless? I dunno about you, but I wouldn't want the work of a relationship with someone I didn't like.

My husband might call me a worthless whore while we're having sex. He might have me do humiliating things purely because he gets kicks from me doing things I hate. But deep down inside I know that the reason he chose me is because I'm not worthless, I'm actually awesome. I know he thinks I'm smart and kind and funny. Doesn't mean it's not hot to play with those roles. Fantasy =/= reality.

I think you'll find the further you get from porn, the closer you'll get to reality. You don't even have to play at female supremacy if it doesn't do it for you.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to Joyfulobedience)
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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 1:55:26 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		No, I am pointing out that you are believing porn/fiction, which is ridiculous.

There are plenty of realistic/loving/romantic dynamics that exist in the real world. The problem is that you are too busy watching, rather than connecting.

You like female supremacy as a kink? Wonderful!

Hey, I'm a chick. Do I think I'm better than you just because of anatomy? No. That's no different than believing someone is better than another because of the color of their skin. Do you believe in that?

You're not unique. There are tons of uninformed and uneducated who are just like you.

Now, what will you do about it?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Joyfulobedience)
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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 2:02:14 AM   
Joyfulobedience


Posts: 10
Joined: 10/17/2012
Status: offline 		Haha, I'm not going to lie and say I don't know how you got that Idea Ladypact, but I most certainly do not believe in porn. But my overall impression from them, as well as profiles, and even forums, has been that men generally like/prefer that. So the whole point of my question was, is that normal, or is my point of view more accurate.

As it is, I don't watch. Because I don't like. And I'm aware that I'm not unique in any manner, because we are all especially ignorant creatures. One dimension of my ignorance, is the bdsm scene, which the intention of my post was to learn about. You'll have to forgive me for being 23, and not knowing anyone local I can relate to.

So in this attempt to learn more, I appreciate your pleasantly aggressive method.

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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 2:04:05 AM   
Joyfulobedience


Posts: 10
Joined: 10/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SingingKestrel

feminine superiority is not something i personally subscribe to but i know men who are the same way. Yes i belong to my Owner, heart, body, and soul but i am not to be veiwed as worthless or even truly a lesser person than Him. There is Someone out there who will fit your frame of mind, i am sure. Good luck!


That is exactly the kind of thing I like to hear. I feel the same way. A real relationship. Thankyou.

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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 2:10:36 AM   
Joyfulobedience


Posts: 10
Joined: 10/17/2012
Status: offline 		Thanks Athena! I'm glad that's been your experience. IT's not as though female supremacy doesn't do anything for me, it's just...is that what female supremacy actually is? I've always wanted to view it as a more intimate thing, and loser, pig, just sounds kind of hateful. I guess my biggest concern is that this would be stretched to encompass the whole relationship. I think the dom/sub relationship could be kind. So I'm glad to hear it's pretty much just a fetish.

My own desire is yes, to find who I will serve, and serve them 24/7. So i guess for me, it's not really about fetish. Maybe that's why it was troubling me. I take it a bit too seriously.


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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 2:11:40 AM   
SingingKestrel


Posts: 9
Joined: 12/1/2012
From: West Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfulobedience


quote:

ORIGINAL: SingingKestrel

feminine superiority is not something i personally subscribe to but i know men who are the same way. Yes i belong to my Owner, heart, body, and soul but i am not to be veiwed as worthless or even truly a lesser person than Him. There is Someone out there who will fit your frame of mind, i am sure. Good luck!


That is exactly the kind of thing I like to hear. I feel the same way. A real relationship. Thankyou.


*giggles*

They are out there, i promise!

(in reply to Joyfulobedience)
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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 2:28:07 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfulobedience

Thanks Athena! I'm glad that's been your experience. IT's not as though female supremacy doesn't do anything for me, it's just...is that what female supremacy actually is? I've always wanted to view it as a more intimate thing, and loser, pig, just sounds kind of hateful. I guess my biggest concern is that this would be stretched to encompass the whole relationship. I think the dom/sub relationship could be kind. So I'm glad to hear it's pretty much just a fetish.

My own desire is yes, to find who I will serve, and serve them 24/7. So i guess for me, it's not really about fetish. Maybe that's why it was troubling me. I take it a bit too seriously.




Now I don't mean to argue semantics, but I would say that what you are describing isn't female supremacy, it's just submission. You want to submit to one particular person, rather than getting off on the notion of all women being better than men. That's how I feel about my husband. I want to submit to him. I prefer male sexual partners, but that doesn't mean I believe every man is worthy of submission.

What LadyPact is saying is that you are watching fetish videos and reading profiles geared towards a sexual fantasy. Naturally they show a very skewed view of this type of relationships. People don't generally want to watch videos of D/s couples having a quiet dinner together, or washing the car, or the bit where she orders him to go to the supermarket because she has a craving for lemon sorbet. They wanna see the dramatic, exciting, sexual bits. Likewise if I'm trawling through profiles dick in hand, I don't want to read about how you're career focused and looking for someone who'd enjoy helping to tend the vegetable garden. I wanna read whatever will get me off.

You're seeing this stuff, but not balancing it with any real - life experience. You don't know any D/s couples so you don't see the bits with cuddling, household responsibilities, birthday parties, taking care of each other when they get sick.

You're finding it extra baffling because all this lowly-worm crap doesn't fit your fantasies or your world view. But once you get your head round the fact that D/s relationships are still essentially relationships, it will be easier to dismiss it as 'just porn'.



_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to Joyfulobedience)
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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 4:12:42 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Some *do* treat their subs as inferior. They have bought into the female supremacy or male supremacy myth that is common not just in pornography but in some internet chat rooms as well.

People who learn about BDSM through porn and chat rooms tend to have a skewed view of how M/s and D/s relationships *really* work. A big reason for that is, even if they do try to transfer into real life, their skewed expectations don't make for quality long term relationships, you know?

I am sub to a dom male and have a sub male in my life. Both these relationships are extremely loving. They are based on deep trust, friendship, compassion, and a degree of emotional transparency you're just not going to find in fiction.

You're in the right place to do some non-fiction reading, and discovering and learning, as CM in a great place for anyone wanting to learn about the lifestyle.

Then get involved with your local munch. Spokane's a fairly large town, there will be groups.

Welcome to the discussion side.







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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 6:07:13 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

When you went to the movie theater to see Lord of the Rings, did you expect the world to look like Middle Earth when you left the theater?



Well played, especially given the OP's avatar :)


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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 6:32:50 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfulobedience
But my overall impression from them, as well as profiles, and even forums, has been that men generally like/prefer that. So the whole point of my question was, is that normal, or is my point of view more accurate.


I actually thought your point was pretty clear to begin with. Don't worry. There are plenty of other people who think like you think.

ETA: I have to wonder: why are so many people bringing up porn? The original post only mentions profiles and threads. It seems fair to first answer the question the OP actually asked, before moving on to speculate about porn.

Pam

< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 12/1/2012 6:39:45 AM >

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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 6:47:52 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		It's because of this part, pam.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfulobedience
Ok. But I see it in generally all fetish videos.
It does happen to be fairly common in porn. I don't blame the producers for that. It's not that I expect them to put reality over what sells and makes them a profit. Go to the local munch, however, and it's nowhere near as prevalent.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Joyfulobedience)
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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 6:56:46 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It's because of this part, pam.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfulobedience
Ok. But I see it in generally all fetish videos.
It does happen to be fairly common in porn. I don't blame the producers for that. It's not that I expect them to put reality over what sells and makes them a profit. Go to the local munch, however, and it's nowhere near as prevalent.




Okay, fair enough.

Pam


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Pam (aka gungadin09)

Forum Freak

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RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? - 12/1/2012 7:56:05 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		All too many dominants come to this from a place of weakness. The seek to make tbe other low so they dont feel so small. Gor and female supremecy all spring from that same place.

I know lots of wonderful, warm, dominant women who seek strong men as their submissive partner. Its just not so common onlineor at least its harder to find.

(in reply to metamorfosis)
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