Collaring, and who choses who. (Full Version)

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AthenaSurrenders -> Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 3:06:44 AM)

I see a lot of people saying they hope to be collared, or that their Master/Mistress/other D-type is considering collaring them, or talking about 'since I was collared'.

I dislike the passivity of the term. What I infer from that is that the dominant was the one doing the choosing, they selected the submissive and took possession. It sounds like the dominant partner was the one who made the decision to become D/s or M/s.

Now there's nothing wrong with that, but I can't relate to it. In our relationship all decisions up to and including the decision to go M/s were taken jointly and on equal footing. It was only after that decision that he got the final say. I don't say that he collared me, because I feel it was something 'we' did, rather than something one person did to the other.

I know for some people, being selected by the dominant, and perhaps having to go through periods of 'consideration' or 'training' to earn the right to be owned are very meaningful and exciting concepts. I never felt that way - it feels a bit like holding the dominant up on a pedestal just for identifying as dominant. I certainly always felt that I was just as worthy a partner and had plenty to offer - had I ever felt like he expected me to prove myself in a one-sided way, I'd have walked away. The only proving that was done was the normal getting to know each other and demonstrating that we were decent human beings, as happens in any vanilla relationship.

So - what do you think? Do you use the term? Do you agree with me on what I think it implies, and is that a good or a bad thing? Or am I totally overthinking a term that is just a convenient way of expressing a level of commitment?

For the record - I'm not criticising the practice of using a collar as a sign of ownership, just pondering the semantics of the term.



angelikaJ -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 3:11:16 AM)

I have been with my Master for over 3 years.
I am not "collared".

However, I have always seen the "process" as a 2 way street.
Worthiness was an important part of becoming His; not just my being worthy to Him but the fact that He proved Himself worthy of owning me.



JeffBC -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 7:52:19 AM)

I say things like "when I collared Carol" or "after the collaring" much like I'd say "when I married Carol" or "after our wedding". It is obviously true that this being a relationship term, it involves the both of us. In general BDSM people like to squint a lot at the bidirectional nature of pretty much everything in a relationship. I suspect that ties back into the idea that there is a top who DOES things and bottom who passively receives them. It's yet another attempt to map sexual fantasy onto real life relationship stuff and it doesn't work so you end up with these things like "I collared Carol" (what? while she helplessly beat her hands against my chest and cried, "Don't! Stop!"??)



chatterbox24 -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 8:23:39 AM)

I can relate to it.

They are dreaming of the day, they are totally inspired, by another human being. Its a big deal especially when you do for one like you have no other. Of course it doesnt always turn out "and we lived happily ever after" but the thought is quite intoxicating and a bit fantasy based when you are "hoping for a collar" Sub has met her big strong wise man type deal. Its kinda sweet to me, but also can be clearly dangerous to a person if they are in sub frenzy. Wrong guy bad result. Right guy awesome result.

Its good to have dreams, its when you can bring them down a knotch to reality that dreams can come true, maybe not quite as imagined though.



SeekingTrinity -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 9:33:11 AM)

Im kind of thinking its an idealized fantasy of what D/s is. Ive usually heard this term much more from more novice submissives and dominants than I have from those who have put in quite a bit of time at this. I honestly dont think Ive ever heard it from people that Ive known who were seriously into the lifestyle. Its almost like the dominant is doing the selecting and the submissive is hoping to be chosen. And then all will be right in the world, the planets will all align, blah, blah, blah. Its a very one-sided way of thinking about it in my honest opinion. As a dominant female, I am certainly better than no one and no one is inferior to me. So the decision for collaring is never ultimately my decision alone. In a way, I might be doing the choosing. But in another way, Im being chosen too.

I cant speak for anyone else's kink, but I have grown to realize over the years that my D/s is a collaboration. It is two halves that are coming together to make a whole. I dont use the terms "training" or "consideration" when I think of a submissive during the initial getting to know each other phase of any relationship. Training someone for what? Considering them for what? I completely agree with what you were saying about proving taking place on both sides.



OsideGirl -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 9:49:26 AM)

When we did it, it was a mutual decision. (Although, he'd tell you that he had decided long before we ever dated)



Nakhla -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 10:42:38 AM)


In the past it was, and in the future it will likely be, a fundamentally mutual thing.

At the same time, I can't imagine initiating it. It's just not in me go "collar me!", and if it comes to the point of a serious commitment, I would be in a situation where my man is already providing most of the direction in our lives.

Then again, I also have tended to invest less emotion in symbolism than most men I've known.



DesFIP -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 11:56:16 AM)

He asked me, he bought it and put it on me. So he collared me.
I really don't think of it as beyond those physical things of who was in charge.

Yes, I could have refused. Actually I did because I had some questions of how it would work ldr. We discussed it and once I understood what he meant, I accepted.



thezeppo -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 12:01:07 PM)

I think if you are at the stage of collaring then it has been mutual somewhere along the line. Surely the terminology just reflects the power dynamic in the ensuing relationship?



KyttynTheMynx -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 12:09:02 PM)

I really think you are over thinking it. When I hear people use those phrases, and in the past when I used those phrases, it may have sounded like He was doing all the work, but I know and understand (from knowing my friends and myself) that it was a mutual thing. Much like a man asking a woman to marry him, or a couple deciding to do the boyfriend/girlfriend thing. I personally cant seem to think of a more neutral way to describe that sort of act. I mean, you can say, "We got engaged!" or "We are now dating" and it sounds yanno. Like a decision made together. How in the hell would you even begin to say something like this in a, "We did this" kinda way? Hmm...



chatterbox24 -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 12:56:17 PM)

I think also maybe people especially subs, use it that way because they just like too. They liked the overpowered feeling, like it was all him, but the fact was it mutual. Cause who is gonna just let some guy throw a collar on you, the women/men are probably in a state of lah lah, Im so into this person I cant stand it, Oh damn oh damn he is the one, beat me, slap me, love me. hahahhaa.



LadyPact -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 1:19:56 PM)

You probably are over thinking it, but that's what we do here, so why not?

While both people have to make a decision regarding collaring/being collared, it's the other way for us. In My view, that collar doesn't belong to clip. It belongs to Me. Whether he chooses to accept the right to wear it or not carries it's own weight.

By the time I collared clip, I did have more power in the dynamic than he did. Unlike Jeff and Carol, we didn't start out as vanilla and morph into authority transfer. I made the decision of when and where to collar clip. Actually, he wasn't involved in either of those things.

I had asked him his thoughts about collaring a couple of months before I put the leather on his neck. The answer that I got back was that he already felt collared to Me. It wasn't a case of him *deciding* that he was owned. He just was.



TieMeInKnottss -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 1:58:01 PM)

I always love the way you think Athena! You give us subs a good name! From my readings, I remember something about a sub always speaking in "passive voice"'(those that don't remember English 101 that is the voice you use when expressing something. Scientists always write in a passive voice because they should not have any impact on the results of an experiment. I am in business, we are to always right in direct) is supposedly the "proper" way for a sub (or slave, butler/maid...) to address higher ups. Personally, I am with you. I have never been selected...I "advertise", a Dom submits an "offer", I consider all offers then negotiate terms until an agreement is met. (Yes, it is the basic definition & process of contract law). To me, collaring is similar to marriage proposal - guy (usually) asks girl (usually) to marry him. Girl agrees or doesn't. If she agrees, he provides ring...we all still say "so and so" asked me to marry him. Most guys are wise enough only to propose to a woman they are pretty sure will accept.



tazzygirl -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 1:59:52 PM)

I have begged every collar I have worn.



chatterbox24 -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 2:11:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

I always love the way you think Athena! You give us subs a good name! From my readings, I remember something about a sub always speaking in "passive voice"'(those that don't remember English 101 that is the voice you use when expressing something. Scientists always write in a passive voice because they should not have any impact on the results of an experiment. I am in business, we are to always right in direct) is supposedly the "proper" way for a sub (or slave, butler/maid...) to address higher ups. Personally, I am with you. I have never been selected...I "advertise", a Dom submits an "offer", I consider all offers then negotiate terms until an agreement is met. (Yes, it is the basic definition & process of contract law). To me, collaring is similar to marriage proposal - guy (usually) asks girl (usually) to marry him. Girl agrees or doesn't. If she agrees, he provides ring...we all still say "so and so" asked me to marry him. Most guys are wise enough only to propose to a woman they are pretty sure will accept.



Its an excellent thread. NOT ALL SUBS SPEAK IN A PASSIVE VOICE. Excuse me for not being proper. I never was.
Truth is though. When you speak in a whisper and everyone listens you have arrived. THat is power no matter what your given position is in life.



TieMeInKnottss -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 3:13:58 PM)

@Chatterbox- I was not saying I thought that I agree with speaking that way, just my understanding of WHY. I read a lot of books about being a sub and many are written from the perspective of service (I think) subs... The part about the passive voice was just me explaining the term (because I was worried that the term "passive" would be misinterpreted as a personality trait



Kana -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 3:51:14 PM)

I collared her. She didn't ask, but was delighted to say yes. And like most everything with us, it was no big deal.
I think we were walking along a street at the Jersey Shore, she saw a bracelet she liked, I bought it for her and said, "That's your collar."
She hasn't taken it off since.



tazzygirl -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 4:10:22 PM)

awww.. such a softie.



chatterbox24 -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 4:25:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

@Chatterbox- I was not saying I thought that I agree with speaking that way, just my understanding of WHY. I read a lot of books about being a sub and many are written from the perspective of service (I think) subs... The part about the passive voice was just me explaining the term (because I was worried that the term "passive" would be misinterpreted as a personality trait


I am crass sometimes. No offense really, my apology. I really liked your post. I am not typical and never care to much what people think, unless I make them feel bad.



littlewonder -> RE: Collaring, and who choses who. (12/3/2012 6:03:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

I collared her. She didn't ask, but was delighted to say yes. And like most everything with us, it was no big deal.
I think we were walking along a street at the Jersey Shore, she saw a bracelet she liked, I bought it for her and said, "That's your collar."
She hasn't taken it off since.


What Master said. He was the one from the very beginning who has always initiated everything including the decision for us to be M/s and for collaring me. That's not to say I wasn't all smiles when he bought it for me and put it on me. I couldn't imagine it being any other way. But we were never "vanilla" from the very beginning. It's always been M/s. If I had said no to his collar we definitely would not be who we are today...friends maybe, but not partners, not lovers, not M/s.

I mean, I guess you could say it was a mutual decision simply because I said yes but as Master said, I never asked, I never once even brought up the idea or thought about it. I was just looking as jewelry because I like jewelry lol. I never once expected it. It could be I"m old fashioned though too. When I got engaged, my future husband has already chosen our rings and surprised me by proposing to me at his bootcamp graduation. We never talked about it, it was never discussed. It just happened. But it was all his doing. Had I said no I doubt we would have still been together as anything more than friends either.

I can't ever picture me begging for a collar or asking for a collar. I would feel as if I was pushing him into doing it instead of it being his decision.




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