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The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/6/2012 3:38:20 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		See, Congress told the President to spend the money when they passed the appropriations bills. ( Which, of course is explicit in the Constitution ).

Therefore, any subsequent legislation limiting that explicitly delegated power is, unconstitutional.

If the republicans didn't want the money to be spent, they should have defeated the appropriations bills in the first place.

Then you let the Supreme Court figure it out.

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

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RE: The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/6/2012 6:01:25 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
See, Congress told the President to spend the money when they passed the appropriations bills. ( Which, of course is explicit in the Constitution ).
Therefore, any subsequent legislation limiting that explicitly delegated power is, unconstitutional.
If the republicans didn't want the money to be spent, they should have defeated the appropriations bills in the first place.
Then you let the Supreme Court figure it out.


Or, you go back and change the appropriations (for example, the Doc Fix Bills that are continually passed). If a program goes over budget, does it automatically have to end right then and there, too? There was no appropriation for the extra expense, so....

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/6/2012 12:36:30 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		Your taking what the Republicans state at face value as being in the best interests of this nation?

....naive....

Who was in office when this debt jumped from a pooky $2 Trillion to $11.5 Trillion inside of eight years? Who put them into office? That is ultimately whom should be blamed for the debt. All those tax cuts we got back in 200-2002 really did have a negative effect on our budget. To bad we have to many Americans completely ignorant of facts and reality.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/6/2012 12:42:34 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Well, they wouln't vote Republican if they weren't, would they?

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to joether)
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RE: The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/6/2012 12:58:28 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Your taking what the Republicans state at face value as being in the best interests of this nation?
....naive....
Who was in office when this debt jumped from a pooky $2 Trillion to $11.5 Trillion inside of eight years? Who put them into office? That is ultimately whom should be blamed for the debt. All those tax cuts we got back in 200-2002 really did have a negative effect on our budget. To bad we have to many Americans completely ignorant of facts and reality.


Um, where was it that I was saying anything about one party or another?

Tell me something joether, what was Federal revenue for FY2000 and FY2001? What was Federal revenue for FY2009? What was it for FY2007 and FY2008? What was Federal revenue for FY2012?

Now, tell me how it's a revenue problem.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/6/2012 1:06:23 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Tell me something joether, what was Federal revenue for FY2000 and FY2001? What was Federal revenue for FY2009? What was it for FY2007 and FY2008? What was Federal revenue for FY2012?

Now, tell me how it's a revenue problem.

-------------------------------------------

Well, once more for the short fingered simpletonian simpleminded cretins.  Tell me what the debt was for  FY2001 and FY2002 and FY2009?  And FY2007 and FY2008 and FY2012? 

Now, tell me how it's a debt problem.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/6/2012 1:08:50 PM >

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/6/2012 2:15:10 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		Medicare drug program (which I'd actually support if not for the mess it is) that was never paid for.

Two wars that were never paid for, unless you can show any other time in our history in which this country has engaged in prolonged warfare without raising taxes.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/6/2012 3:32:36 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Tell me something joether, what was Federal revenue for FY2000 and FY2001? What was Federal revenue for FY2009? What was it for FY2007 and FY2008? What was Federal revenue for FY2012?
Now, tell me how it's a revenue problem.
-------------------------------------------
Well, once more for the short fingered simpletonian simpleminded cretins.  Tell me what the debt was for  FY2001 and FY2002 and FY2009?  And FY2007 and FY2008 and FY2012? 
Now, tell me how it's a debt problem.


It's a debt problem. Now, I'm assuming you either didn't mean "debt" but "revenue," or that you meant to ask how it's not a debt problem. If I'm incorrect in those assumptions let me know. Your question simply doesn't fit since we aren't arguing that we don't have a debt problem.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/6/2012 3:35:30 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
Medicare drug program (which I'd actually support if not for the mess it is) that was never paid for.


Spending.

quote:

Two wars that were never paid for, unless you can show any other time in our history in which this country has engaged in prolonged warfare without raising taxes.


And, more spending. Are you saying that the spending was okay, but we needed to raise taxes? Or, would you agree with me, that it's spending increases (beyond huge increases) that have been driving the deficits?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/6/2012 4:07:32 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		I'm saying that the spending for the Medicare drug coverage would have been ok if they had paid for it.

I'm saying war is never ok but any country who finds it necessary to go to war should pay for it by raising taxes on its citizens.

Do you honestly think we would have been in Afghanistan for more than a decade if we'd all been asked to pay for it?

Now the bill for those wars are due and instead of asking the American people to pay that specific bill, they are asking us to shred the social safety net, to cut back on education, police, fire, medicaid and even Medicare and so much more. Cuts like these will hurt the poor the most, deny them the basic necessities of living as well as deny them the opportunity to get out of poverty.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The Debt Limit is unconstiutional, so just ignore it. - 12/7/2012 6:21:42 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
I'm saying that the spending for the Medicare drug coverage would have been ok if they had paid for it.


So, you're saying that increased spending is okay.

quote:

I'm saying war is never ok but any country who finds it necessary to go to war should pay for it by raising taxes on its citizens.


I don't believe anyone truly believes war is good. No one. The human toll is beyond description. But, here again, you're saying, if it's necessary, you don't have a problem with the spending.

quote:

Do you honestly think we would have been in Afghanistan for more than a decade if we'd all been asked to pay for it?


I honestly think we'd have been done with the wars before Bush was out of office had we allowed the troops we've trained do what htey have been trained to do how they have been trained. We let the media nerf our strategies towards a more "acceptable" war. War is Hell and should be waged that way. The death toll would have gone up quickly, but I do believe it would have stopped rising before it is where it is.

quote:

Now the bill for those wars are due and instead of asking the American people to pay that specific bill, they are asking us to shred the social safety net, to cut back on education, police, fire, medicaid and even Medicare and so much more.


We agree that the American people should foot the bill. Considering how you vote, I don't think we agree on just who are the American people.

quote:

Cuts like these will hurt the poor the most, deny them the basic necessities of living as well as deny them the opportunity to get out of poverty.


As a percentage of the population, the amount of people living in poverty is going down. But, in raw numbers, the number of people living in poverty has increased. But it's the same stupid arguments that are made between %GDP and raw $$ when revenues/expenditures/deficits comes up.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 11
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