12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (Full Version)

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Marini -> 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 10:04:46 AM)

12/8/12- Fiscal Cliff Negotiations Continue
President Obama gave his weekly address in the White House a few hours ago.

President Obama continues to urge Congress to extend the Middle Class tax cuts for 98% of Americans!!

Yay!!!!

With no end in sight regarding the looming fiscal cliffhanger, President Obama is standing firm on NOT raising taxes on the Middle Class.

WhiteHouse.gov-12/8/12- President Obama Weekly Address- Extend Middle Class Tax Cuts!

Let's see we basically have exactly 2 weeks before Congress goes bye-bye for Christmas break.
They are working hard on fiscal cliff negotiations, and I am hearing that President Obama has the upper hand.

I just heard that there is a 70% chance that a deal will be made in the next 2 weeks.

The clock is ticking, let's make a deal.





Fellow -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 10:42:04 AM)

Talk is cheap Mr. Obama. There was no hint how exactly Obama will reduce the deficit. Without that it is just propaganda baloney.




Marini -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 10:45:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Talk is cheap Mr. Obama. There was no hint how exactly Obama will reduce the deficit. Without that it is just propaganda baloney.


Talk is indeed cheap, but President Obama did not make the rules nor create the game.
President Obama must play the game with the big boys, and I am glad he is a great orator.

So far MOST Americans seem to feel that President Obama is looking jim dandy these days.

Let the Republicans put on their big boy panties, and do something!

[;)]
It's playtime so let's play.
How low can we go?
In fact, let's get all the way down.

It's showtime.




tazzygirl -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 11:26:59 AM)

quote:

Talk is cheap Mr. Obama. There was no hint how exactly Obama will reduce the deficit. Without that it is just propaganda baloney.


Yes there is....

TAXES

Obama: Increase taxes by $1.6 trillion over 10 years, raised by permitting tax rates on individual income exceeding $200,000 and family income over $250,000 to return to Clinton-era levels of 36 and 39.6 percent, up from 33 and 35 percent now. Increase taxes on dividend income and reduce the value of deductions and exemptions for those earning above $200,000 and 250,000. Renew the 2 percentage point payroll tax holiday or a similar tax cut for workers. Return taxes on large estates to 2009 levels. Permits tax reform to replace the existing code so long as it maintains the $1.6 trillion tax hike.

House GOP: Increase taxes by $800 billion over 10 years, raised through a comprehensive overhaul of the tax code that would curb various unspecified tax breaks while lowering tax rates overall. Extend all expiring Bush-era tax cuts on income, investments, married couples and families with children. Maintains the estate tax at current, more generous levels exempting estates up to $5.1 million from tax and sets a top rate of 35 percent. Permits payroll tax cut to expire.


HEALTH CARE

Obama: Cut $350 billion over 10 years from federal health care programs Medicare and Medicaid, including lower Medicare drug costs and other cost curbs on health care providers.

House GOP: Cut $600 billion over 10 years. Includes unspecified cuts to health care providers and assumes an increase in the eligibility age for Medicare and increased Medicare costs for higher-income beneficiaries.


OTHER SPENDING CUTS

Obama: Cut the deficit by $250 billion through other spending cuts and new fees. Options include requiring federal workers to contribute more to their retirement, cut farm subsidies, increase airline security fees, overhaul Postal Service operations, and increasing fees on some enrollees in the military's Tricare health care plan. Leaves in place existing "caps" on agency budgets passed by Congress each year.

House GOP: Deficit cuts of $300 billion through such cuts and fees from miscellaneous programs. Cut another $300 billion over the decade from agency operating budgets.


GOVERNMENT INFLATION MEASURE:

Obama: No proposal.

House GOP: Reduce deficits by $200 billion over 10 years by replacing the current inflation adjustment for Social Security and income tax brackets with a less generous "chained CPI" that, on average, is 0.3 percentage points less than the current measure. Doing so would reduce Social Security cost-of-living increases and cause a greater portion of taxpayer income to be taxed at higher rates.


NEW SPENDING

Obama: $200 billion in new economic "stimulus" initiatives, including payroll tax cuts, continued write-offs of business equipment purchases, extended unemployment benefits, help for borrowers "under water" on their mortgages, and new spending on infrastructure.

House GOP: No proposal.


DEBT LIMIT

Obama: Permit the president to obtain increases in the government's borrowing cap, currently set at $16.4 trillion, without approval by Congress.

House GOP: Retain longstanding requirement that debt limit increases be enacted by Congress.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/Highlights-of-White-House-GOP-budget-plans-4090375.php#ixzz2E8VgyzbG




Marini -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 11:35:23 AM)

Thanks tazzy!!

That's just what I was going to say!

The ball is in the Republicans court, let's see what they bring to the table.
[;)]




tazzygirl -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 11:38:27 AM)

I would love to see both their full plans. Maybe I would like the Republican one better? But all this... school yard games... has got to stop. Reminds me of the... "One was scared.. and the other one was glad of it".




Marini -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 11:54:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I would love to see both their full plans. Maybe I would like the Republican one better? But all this... school yard games... has got to stop. Reminds me of the... "One was scared.. and the other one was glad of it".


To be honest, I AM GLAD BOTH sides are both scared.

I hear a lot of crap on here, about how protesting does not work, and what people say or DO doesn't work, but it appears both sides are a bit frightened of how Americans are going to "handle" major cuts.

There is too much at stake, and it's the 11th hour.
I get tired of "quick" decisions, especially important and life changing decisions.
What the hell is the rush at this point?
If it takes a year or so to "hammer" it out, so be it.

The people have a lot more power that what many think---and many, many, people are watching a bit more closely these days.

Let's get it on.




Louve00 -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 12:06:53 PM)

Tazzy, I love the way you research things out for people. Thanks! You're da bomb!![sm=smile.gif]




tazzygirl -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 12:13:58 PM)

Thanks! Keep in mind, thats just a taste of both plans. Its hardly all inclusive. But for someone to say that Obama hasnt at least put something concrete out there is simply someone being too lazy to look. [;)]




Fellow -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 12:25:30 PM)

quote:

Yes there is....

TAXES


All this assumes the current structure of the economy is sound. In essence the proposals (both the Dems and the Republicats) are to protect and extend the status quo. It is an illusion, the problems can not be fixed this way. My opinion is it is not. Anybody believes the bogus 10-years into the future projections? The structure of the economy needs to be fundamentally changed. An average fifth-grader can come out with working proposals, Washington plutocrats (incl. Obama) protect their own.

Here is a thoughtful opinion by the former assistant treasury secretary:
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/12/01/our-collapsing-economy-and-currency/






tazzygirl -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 12:31:10 PM)

Co-founder of Reaganomics?

Pass.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 12:53:02 PM)

People making $251,000.00 are middle class too




tazzygirl -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 12:55:52 PM)

quote:

People making $251,000.00 are middle class too


And?

You do understand that the hikes for a person making 251,000 would only affect 1,000.




Fellow -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 2:26:57 PM)

quote:

Co-founder of Reaganomics?

Pass.

Reaganomics was not the right direction to take, but (face the truth) it brought the country out of recession and it was very important for 1990-s high-tech driven economic boom.
Craig Roberts has been a government insider, WS Journal editor, and an educator; it is foolish to ignore what he has to say. Besides, he does not have a personal gain or political interest at this point of life.




kdsub -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 2:35:03 PM)


Marini I have no idea what the Republicans are thinking....they cannot win.

Lets say the Republicans fail to compromise and raise taxes to those over $250,000 income. We go over the cliff and tax rates revert to Clinton days for both rich ...poor and middle class. Here is what will happen...Obama and the Democrats will immediately propose a middle class tax reduction bill. Can you imagine the Republicans voting against a tax reduction for the middle class...lol political suicide. So ...the rich's taxes will raise and the middle class will lower and all the Republicans will get out of it is a black eye and loose more voters.

Butch




slvemike4u -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 2:44:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

People making $251,000.00 are middle class too


And?

You do understand that the hikes for a person making 251,000 would only affect 1,000.

No Tazzy,he doesn't understand that[:'(]


But I bet he does understand that he could play the same silly game no matter where President Obama put the number.Notice how he.like Republican leadership,avoids offering an alternative number.
In other words he,like Republican leadership,believes that the only good deficit reduction is one that comes on the back of the less fortunate in our society.
He has embraced the fairy tale that suggests if we could only cut those nasty entitlement programs deep enough the problem would be solved




slvemike4u -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 2:48:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub



Marini I have no idea what the Republicans are thinking....they cannot win.

Lets say the Republicans fail to compromise and raise taxes to those over $250,000 income. We go over the cliff and tax rates revert to Clinton days for both rich ...poor and middle class. Here is what will happen...Obama and the Democrats will immediately propose a middleclass tax reduction bill. Can you imagine the Republicans voting against a tax reduction for the middle class...lol political suicide.

Butch

Yeah Butch,I actually can imagine such a scenario.
It's actually what they are doing right now !
All they would need to do is declare that they can not in good conscious vote for any tax break that does not give relief to the oppressed,and highly put upon,"job creator" class.
Why bothering imagining these things...it's happening in front of our eyes....in real time,just turn on the news.




SilverMark -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 2:54:44 PM)

To say that Reaganomics/supply side/ trickle down worked, is a misnomer. Reagan actually had the largest tax increase since 1968, after a cut that put the country into a tailspin.


Perhaps fellow needs to read a little David Stockman?





tj444 -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 3:22:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow
Here is a thoughtful opinion by the former assistant treasury secretary:
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/12/01/our-collapsing-economy-and-currency/


hmmm.. interesting.. to me, at least.. (but I dont have a dog in this fight..)




thishereboi -> RE: 12/8/12/ President FIRM on not raising taxes for middle class!! (12/8/2012 6:06:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

People making $251,000.00 are middle class too


And?

You do understand that the hikes for a person making 251,000 would only affect 1,000.

No Tazzy,he doesn't understand that[:'(]


But I bet he does understand that he could play the same silly game no matter where President Obama put the number.Notice how he.like Republican leadership,avoids offering an alternative number.
In other words he,like Republican leadership,believes that the only good deficit reduction is one that comes on the back of the less fortunate in our society.
He has embraced the fairy tale that suggests if we could only cut those nasty entitlement programs deep enough the problem would be solved


Well according to this the number 250,000 doesn't mean what they say it means

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/business/obamas-tax-plan-would-spare-many-affluent-families.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1355018551-aTLguSurU+a3Ac3y9xHjBA

"Furthermore, to remain consistent with the president’s original promise, the administration has adjusted the original numbers for inflation. When Mr. Obama says $250,000, the White House says he means “in 2009 dollars.” It is now proposing to raise marginal rates on families with taxable incomes above $246,000 — meaning, on average, families earning more than about $305,000"





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