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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 11:14:53 PM

CougarRick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Your assumption that masochists enjoy all forms of pain is incorrect.

Yeah, I'm starting to see that. I do have a terrible habit of speaking/typing before thinking.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 11:23:11 PM

CougarRick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
Not so. I'm one of those that doesn't like to play without an emotional attachment.

I don't see how I could either. Allowing someone to shackle me so I am defenceless while they hurt me would take a hell of a lot of trust. I would need to know that this person cared about my long term health.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
As much as I enjoy causing pain, it isn't my primary focus. It's merely a tool, just as sex is a tool. When I top, I become very detached and clinical. Picture the mad scientist, tinkering away with test tubes and beakers only, in this case, it's with paddles and floggers. If I do X, what happens? Or, if I want Y reaction, what must I do to get it? These are the questions running through my head when I top. My primary kink is control, but not the sort that comes from restraining someone.

For the most part I see that. From my limitted experience I too can see the detached side from the top taking over as I accept the persons actions. Love your mad scientist analogy. Scary but hilarious.

quote:

I need the openness and emotional transparency of a deeply intimate relationship to achieve the level of control I crave. I only hurt the ones I love, otherwise, it isn't fulfilling for me. So, when you ask if it brings people closer, my answer is no...I need to be very close to them already.

I agree that I would need to be very close to someone already, yet interesting that you don't find the bond improved by the pain.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/11/2012 9:59:20 AM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarRick

Love your mad scientist analogy. Scary but hilarious.

You think I'm kidding...but you haven't seen my lab coat.

quote:

quote:

I need the openness and emotional transparency of a deeply intimate relationship to achieve the level of control I crave. I only hurt the ones I love, otherwise, it isn't fulfilling for me. So, when you ask if it brings people closer, my answer is no...I need to be very close to them already.

I agree that I would need to be very close to someone already, yet interesting that you don't find the bond improved by the pain.

The bond might be improved or strengthened for them, but not for me. I'm too emotionally detached at that point. What does improve the bond for me is service. If you've ever heard of the 5 Love Languages - and if you haven't, you should Google them - one of the "love languages" is acts of service. That's my primary one, followed closely by quality time. Having a sub do things for me, from washing the dishes to bringing me a cup of coffee prepared just the way I like it, is what trips my emotional trigger. When I feel cared for, I feel loved, and that's what strengthens my emotional bond with someone. Just spending time together having a quality discussion also makes me feel close to my partners. Combine the two and I'm sure to melt.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/11/2012 5:14:19 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarRick

OK, I’m trying to learn about pain being inflicted on a sub. I don’t know a damned thing, so my apologies of my questions/musings seem dumb.

I have become fascinated with pain, yet not only do I not fully understand my own interest in pain and punishment. I do find the idea of having pain inflicted upon me by a mistress to be appealing, for various reasons both psychological and emotional, yet when I think of this it makes no sense.

Am I a masochist? Well let’s think about that; Earlier this week I accidentally dropped something heavy on my finger, now if I were a pain whore, I imagine I would have started moaning heavily and had an earth shattering orgasm. Instead I let loose with a barrage of colourful and descriptive adjectives which indicates that in fact I do not like pain, yet…….I find myself intrigued.

I do find the idea of submitting to someone who wants to punish me to be very enticing, and it’s not just a kink thing. I think in some weird sort of way, I would feel that punishment might be part of what brings a sub and a dom/dome closer. Does that make sense or is it just about kink?

I’m not sure how to ask my questions because I’m not sure what my questions are. Is it normal to both be intrigued by the idea of punishmet yet at the same time afraid of it? I see subs posting comments saying “beat me, break me, make me bleed…etc” and I wonder do that actually mean that literally? If so I may be out of my depth with most dominants, because I do fear permanent injury of disfigurement. I think if I cared about someone and knew they cared about me I could enjoy letting that person punish me, but some of the stuff people talk about on here scares me. Anyway, sorry for babbling………

Can the experience of a dom punishing a sub, causing him pain possibly be an emotional issue? Is this something that can bring two people closer? Part of me feels that allowing myself to be defenceless and harmed is the ultimate act of devotion. It seems like I’m showing that I would let that person hurt me if that would please them. I don’t think the pain itself would be as important to me as knowing that I am giving so much to make that person happy. Yet also, part of me feels that while she may be causing me pain, she could be causing any guy pain yet she is choosing to do it to me, so again I feel it as being something special to be shared (please don’t laugh at that).

OK, I’m babbling. Does anybody have any input? Is the inflicting of pain as much of an emotional thing as a kink/play thing?

Yes...let's.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/12/2012 6:23:38 AM

CougarRick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
You think I'm kidding...but you haven't seen my lab coat.

OK then, now you really do scare me LOL

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
The bond might be improved or strengthened for them, but not for me. I'm too emotionally detached at that point. What does improve the bond for me is service. If you've ever heard of the 5 Love Languages - and if you haven't, you should Google them –

Will do that as soon as I finish typing this response

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
one of the "love languages" is acts of service. That's my primary one, followed closely by quality time. Having a sub do things for me, from washing the dishes to bringing me a cup of coffee prepared just the way I like it, is what trips my emotional trigger. When I feel cared for, I feel loved, and that's what strengthens my emotional bond with someone. Just spending time together having a quality discussion also makes me feel close to my partners. Combine the two and I'm sure to melt.

That is kind of what I envision as being an ideal dom/sub relationship at least from my perspective. I don’t know anything about it as I am just in the learning stage but I think a large part of it is about giving oneself fully to another person, more so than in a conventional relationship. I am sort of in a vanilla relationship in real life and currently don’t tell her about my inner sub side, but I love doing things like foot rubs, massages, preparing food...etc. So extrapolating on this, I definitely see the service side of being a sub as being emotionally critical for me in a relationship. Letting someone hurt me is more of an act of giving than any real kink although I admit there is some kink appeal there too, but I just love the idea of basically taking care of someone’s every need and putting their needs ahead of my own. I would find that embarrassing to admit in real life. Rather glad to hear that I am not just being silly by thinking this way.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/12/2012 6:40:28 AM

CougarRick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

As a sadist, inflicting pain doesn't make Me feel emotional ties to someone. Oh, I love it when folks take pain to please Me, but it doesn't necessarily endear them to Me. I'm different about casual play than I am about casual sex. I can do this stuff for fun just as easily as I can do it for love. If I top somebody, I'm walking away from that experience feeling no different about the person who bottomed for Me than when I started. Other people feel differently about that than I do and it's a part of why some people don't play unless they are in a relationship with that person.

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I think for me, there would have to be some sort of relationship for me to play with pain. One, I think I would have to have some feelings for the other person otherwise I couldn't see why I would suffer pain for them. Two, as being tied up would leave me completely at the mercy of the other person I would need to know that the other person at least cares about me a bit and wouldn't want to inflict serious harm. Otherwise the thought of being helpless in the presence of that person would go from good scary to bad scary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Oh, you specifically mentioned rage or libido. Well, first of all, don't let people play with you if they are enraged. That's a bad sign right there.
[/color]

Point taken.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Libido may or may not be a factor. Heck, I top women and I don't have any sexual impulses when I do. I'm swinging the same floggers as I do when I play with clip and get very turned on, but for Me, it's not the actions. It's the person.
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Yeah at this stage I don't know where I would stand on that. Sure it sounds like it could be exciting, but then I have never been there. I imagine that if I found myself tied up for the first time, the fear might be greater in reality than I had fantasised and it could really be a turn off. I hope that isn't the case but I can't really know for sure.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/12/2012 11:11:48 AM

plesto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarRick
Am I a masochist? Well let’s think about that; Earlier this week I accidentally dropped something heavy on my finger, now if I were a pain whore, I imagine I would have started moaning heavily and had an earth shattering orgasm. Instead I let loose with a barrage of colourful and descriptive adjectives which indicates that in fact I do not like pain, yet…….I find myself intrigued.

Accidental pain is generally very different for most people, the slightest knock and I will let out an ouch. I am a total wimp with accidental pain, which is the complete opposite to when the pain is purposely inflicted on me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarRick
OK, I’m babbling. Does anybody have any input? Is the inflicting of pain as much of an emotional thing as a kink/play thing?

From the receiving point of view it will vary from person to person. Some can do it without emotion, whilst others will only do it with those they trust, know etc. With letting someone inflict pain on you trust will always come into it to varying degrees. A well known and experienced pro for example is someone you can probably trust without knowing them beforehand.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/12/2012 3:23:11 PM

CougarRick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Yes...let's.

Okaayyyyy...uhm, I hope I didn't say something wrong?

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/13/2012 11:10:42 PM

VioletViolence

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The other ladies touched on most of what I would say already, but one bit that did stick out for me was what happens after the pain. As LadtPact mentioned most people do some form of after care, whether it's just grabbing the sub a glass of water or snuggles and loving. For me (and I suspect a number of other Doms/Tops) the after care is just as much about me returning to normal as it is for the sub. I get a huge endorphin and adrenaline rush when I play and I need snuggly time afterwards as well as some reassurance that the bottom loved what I did to them (it doesn't need to be verbal, being a happy, purring puddle in my lap is enough for me to know they had a good time). And for me it is something that I find very bonding. SylvereApLeanan talks about the love languages and I too have "acts of service" as my number one, but unlike her I view being a bottom to my sadism as a service, so it's something that makes me feel very loved. This is probably the reason I don't do much casual play :)

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/14/2012 7:34:16 AM

CougarRick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletViolence
The other ladies touched on most of what I would say already, but one bit that did stick out for me was what happens after the pain. As LadtPact mentioned most people do some form of after care, whether it's just grabbing the sub a glass of water or snuggles and loving. For me (and I suspect a number of other Doms/Tops) the after care is just as much about me returning to normal as it is for the sub. I get a huge endorphin and adrenaline rush when I play and I need snuggly time afterwards as well as some reassurance that the bottom loved what I did to them (it doesn't need to be verbal, being a happy, purring puddle in my lap is enough for me to know they had a good time). And for me it is something that I find very bonding.

THat is kind of what I think I might enjoy from the whole experience. Sure the kink side of the pain has it's excitement, but I definitely want some sort of feeling that there was something intimate to the whole thing

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletViolence
SylvereApLeanan talks about the love languages and I too have "acts of service" as my number one, but unlike her I view being a bottom to my sadism as a service, so it's something that makes me feel very loved. This is probably the reason I don't do much casual play :)

Actually as soon as I saw her post on the five love languages I googled it and found it. Quite informative. It really states things we all know, but seems to categorized and articulate them well.

Regarding casual play, I wouldn't be against it but I wouldn't want it to be completely impersonal either. I don't think I would have to be in love with the person or and a serious long term comitted relationship, but I would want some sort of connection with the person so that I feel the person sees me as a human and not just a whipping post for practice. Even if the person just gave me a hug afterwards and sat around later and talked with me about the experience I think I might be OK with that.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/14/2012 3:08:45 PM

VioletViolence

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The 5 love languages is definitely a great starting point, I was just trying to point out that even people who have the same love language might speak different "dialects" (as the book puts it). I also wasn't trying to put down casual play. I have done it and probably will again, but for me it can only be with someone whom I at least have a solid friendship with. I encourage you to try pretty much anything you feel comfortable with, it's the only way to find out what works for you :)

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/17/2012 4:33:15 PM

UrNatalie

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Here is something I experienced very recently.

For weeks I was so eager to get a real pain play, the one that makes a change in you, the kind that opens new levels.
That day Master told me that I would receive thirty canes and belts for His pleasure.
"If you won't cry this time, I will continue to increase stripes each time until you cry for me, Turtle". *Turtle is my name given by my Master.
My head went spinning from that txt. All day I was so excited and horny from all the anticipation of this new experience I was about to have.
Time came and my hands were tied with plastic bands and robe to the ceiling hook, quite uncomfortable for my wrists, but hey, I wasn't there for the kiss on the cheek.
I looked at Master and something in His eyes made me ask for something to bite on. I sensed that whatever happens was going to be nothing like before. He was going to hurt me till I cry... .
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Twenty? Fifty? Hundred? I lost the number. Long before that I even forgot about the pain from those plastic bands around my wrists that almost cut into my skin from me trying to pull away. Cane, belt, cane, belt, I thought it lasted eternity, the pain was so great I thought I couldn't handle anymore, until Master started whipping my breasts. God, that was so painful, like nothing I've ever experienced...
"Your pain makes me happy" I felt His arousal pressed against me.
I had my safe word on the tip of my tongue, but I couldn't vocalize it. I had to be strong to make Him happy.
I cried...
I couldn't believe the level of pain He have put me through. I was mad, I was furious, exhausted, happy, relieved, light, used, offended, sad. Still trying to figure out the whole bouquet of emotions that have overwhelmed me.
I was hanging there when Master leaned to kiss me. I didn't feel like kissing Him back. Nevertheless, I did, as lousy as possible.
"Kiss me with more enthusiasm now"
Through the pain and tears I had to kiss Him, who made me cry and hurt. There was no need in rape play to make me feel raped.

"You can't truly submit, until I take more than you can easily give"

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/18/2012 7:02:48 AM

ServiceBoy89

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Yous must ask shaolin monks.They know this answer very good.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/20/2012 12:11:11 PM

ServiceBoy89

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKFln4YwBRM

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/20/2012 10:43:41 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
Somehow for me it feels deeper and more powerful to know that he's getting pleasure from me submitting to something I hate.

This is a control thing I suspect rather than a pain thing because it resonates with me also. The way I say it to Carol is that while she obeys all the time you can't really feel the [metaphorical] leash without tension on it. So yes, despite the fact that I'm not a physical or emotional sadist, I like it when I'm making her bend to my will in ways which are hard for her.

And to the thread in general:
Wow, what a great read. This has been very illuminating for me also. Special thanks to LP and SylvereAptLeanan.

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