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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/12/2012 4:14:47 PM   
SacredDepravity


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The best advice I could offer you is in home dog sitting. I'd elect for it to be a friend you are comfortable entering your home and staying for a period of time several times a day. While wild dogs can deal with the cold, even outdoor domesticated dogs do not have the same heartiness. They need warmth provided to them. This person would need to be able to come and let the dog in and out on a schedule you determine is appropriate. They can also do things like bring in your mail, water plants, etc that you also need taken care of. Is the dog house trained at all? That will make it harder, but he may be able to do days outdoors and nights indoors confined to a place he can't hurt if he has an accident. It's tricky making arrangements to be away with a new animal to look after. Kennels are out due to his immunization records. Pro dog sitters are going to want the same to protect them in the event your dog would happen to bite them. A friend, on the other hand, should be able to understand what you are trying to accomplish and be willing to help for free or nearly so. I usually charge about $10 a day to cover my gas when I do this for friends. I require that they provide all other items the dog needs like food, toys, bedding, etc. I had one person take advantage of me on the food thing and I wound up paying out every penny of gas money to provide food for the dog and was not reimbursed.

No, you are not being cruel to this dog. He is not a wild dog and is incapable of surviving some extremes in weather his wild counterparts can. He needs somewhere to go when it gets too cold. You are providing that. Good for you for taking excellent care of this abandoned animal.

SD

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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/12/2012 5:16:53 PM   
DesFIP


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The Man used to do winter camping. He was fine as long as he filled his tent with two or three feet or dry leaves, and then put his sleeping bag in the middle. Hay or straw that the dog will burrow into will do the same, even better if there's a space blanket to reflect the heat back up. I wouldn't feel comfortable using an electric pad with straw, I'd be afraid it would catch fire.

I would elicit a local teen to come out and put down fresh food and water daily though. At these temps, the water will freeze and he'll have nothing to drink. He can survive some days without food but not without water.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 12/12/2012 5:20:32 PM >


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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/12/2012 5:41:25 PM   
ResidentSadist


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In Michigan they insulate the floor and put a light bulb in the dog house for the radiant heat. Works just fine. If it is the village dog, maybe they can all pitch in and build or buy a dog house since you are willing to give the pooch a place to sleep? If not, a cheap temporary fix during your vacation might be is a light bulb in a cardboard box.

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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/14/2012 1:38:57 AM   
MariaB


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We have prepared the cave by putting down a pallet on top of some insulation material and some further insulation material on top of that. We couldn't manage to get a heat pad but we have put down wool blankets. If wool gets wet and because this dog is padding in and out of the snow all the time, it will remain warm.
Water isn't a problem because the village wells have constant running water and the farmers break any forming ice on them as soon as it forms.
Good idea about the light bulb, though I think what we have provided is already a hundred times better than what he had. The cave is very sheltered and dry.
Our neighbors know what I have done and they have said they will look out for him.
If he was my dog, or if I could make him my dog, which I can't, things would be very different.

Thanks for the advice everyone

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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/14/2012 5:16:38 AM   
thishereboi


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I doubt that letting him have a warm spot to sleep at night for a week is going to make him soft. Now he will probibly miss you when your gone, but he will be really happy when you get back.

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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/14/2012 5:27:39 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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I came to this thread late. It sounds like a great solution to me, Maria.

And I have to say, I love this group !! When someone really needs advice (on most any topic), helpful and knowledgeable people come through.

Everything about this thread made me smile: The cute dog, Maria's warm heart, the tough villagers who are not *that* tough, and the wonderful and informative replies to the situation.





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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/14/2012 9:37:37 AM   
MercTech


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Tech head thought.. good doghouse. If you want pre-fab google "Dogloo" and shop price... polystyrene igloo looking doghouse.

Get some 3M Frostex and put in the bottom of the doghouse to keep the temperature of his bed at 40 degrees or so.

FYI... Frostex is useful stuff. A head trace wire of special plastic; no thermostat needed. It draws no current until the temperature drops below 40 degrees and generates more heat the colder it gets. Actually designed for keeping snow off the roof for pipes from freezing it works for a doghouse and much safer than putting a light bulb in the doghouse. (personally prototyped in Idaho winters dropping as low as -19 F a few years ago)

They do make heated dog beds but I'm not impressed with the quality control in manufacturing. I bought two a few years ago and the bloody thing caused the bedding to smolder... poor electrical connections inside of it.

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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/14/2012 9:51:26 AM   
MariaB


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Thanks Chatte and I agree. I have been given some very sound advice on this thread. The trouble is I googled igloo homes for dogs and ended up getting distracted http://pinktentacle.com/2008/08/styrofoam-dome-homes/

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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/14/2012 10:25:51 AM   
mnottertail


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Don't be cruel;
to a dog that's cool.............


Elvis (thank ya very much)

I have left the building.  

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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/14/2012 9:33:47 PM   
descrite


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This thread breaks my fucking heart.

I can watch people beat the crap out of each other with zero problem...but if I even think about a dog being neglected (or, worse, abused), it upsets me to no end.

Good for you for looking out for the animal. Doom on the villagers. Point, Civilization.

I'm going to hug my dog now.



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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/14/2012 9:41:38 PM   
Muttling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


If he was my dog, or if I could make him my dog, which I can't, things would be very different.




Sorry for being late to the party (you can spank me for it later.)


You have a very good plan, but I have a question for the long run.

Why can't you take him in as your dog when you get back? It certainly sounds like he's adopted you and Steve is enjoying him. You're making sure he's cared for and doing a fabulous job of it.

Everything I've read suggests that it would be pretty easy set up outdoor care for him or to migrate him into the house as an indoor dog.

< Message edited by Muttling -- 12/14/2012 9:42:20 PM >

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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/14/2012 10:32:55 PM   
epiphiny43


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Polystyrene: Keeping heat in IS keeping heat out. There is no difference. The idea is to maintain heat inequality, Not let flow heat easily so it evens out everywhere, (Enthropy) the useful quality we assign the word Insulation.
The dog needs shelter from wind (wind chill greatly accentuates any heat transfer(loss) and something to lie on and hopefully burrow into that insulates against extreme cold. His own body heat is more than enough heat source if something prevents a reasonable amount of the heat from escaping. (This is one reason why wild dogs and wolves dig dens.) Wood enclosures help, blankets are good, but few dogs understand how to burrow into them. Piles of rags are easier and more effective for a dog who burrows and circles as basic instinct. Foam plastic is better than wood for structures as it is a better heat barrier, for the same thickness, and can be used far thicker as it's lighter. Dogs tend to destroy it though, depending on the taste and strength of any covering. Note how many people are finding Dogloos work great.
Leaves and hay/straw are excellent if deep enough for the dog to burrow into it. The pile won't stay together if exposed to wind and needs some structure to keep the dog's burrowing from spreading the pile to uselessness. Even snow is good insulation for a furred animal or clothed human if the heat flow at the fur or cloth/snow interface isn't fast enough from the inner mammal body to melt the snow to water, which can absorb or transfer heat much better. The snow works just like leaves, though it's much smaller bits, because it has few points that touch and the small air spaces in the snow pack can't circulate and transfer heat. This is very basic survival school material.
However you maintain it, stagnant air is excellent insulation, why we put fiberglass batting in our snow belt home exterior walls and roofs. The snow block houses used by Arctic peoples work great, if you don't expect to be 70º inside. It's easy to stay warm with proper clothes, (Or a coat of fur) in a 35-40º shelter, as opposed to sub-zero weather with strong winds outside.

A dog shouldn't lose a winter coat from short exposures to even central heating in human structures. Part of the fur growth is genetic reaction to seasons, affected by day length. Part is the general coldness of the outdoors. Totally indoor dogs usually have a definite winter coat in the proper season. The dog in question is largely roaming free all seasons?
In cold weather access to adequate water and enough protein and calories in the diet are all a long hair dog needs besides simple shelter. Short hair dogs aren't equipped for snowbelt winters as well.

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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/15/2012 5:41:26 AM   
kallisto


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As others have said, thanks for taking care of your new found 4-legged friend.

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RE: Am I being cruel to this dog? - 12/15/2012 9:26:15 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

He is used to sleeping outside but its now minus 20 during the dark hours.


I used to winter camp and am wondering if this is Celsius or Fahrenheit? I made it to 7 degrees F, but that was a little too cold, unlike 17 F, which was the best sleep of my life.

Kudus to you for helping Weekend. I see an adoption in your future :)

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