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Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 5:40:20 AM

jlf1961

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I am not going to say that this is done by Republicans, or even the majority of Conservatives, but some of this is just outright Lies.

Two recent examples I have seen are as follows.

From Christians against the re-election of Obama

Then there was another interesting thing that read "Thanks to Obama rewriting the list, a Muslim yelling Kill Americans cannot be put on the terrorist watch list, but a Vet yelling defend the constitution can."

As I said, not all Republicans or Conservatives believe this, but the ones that do need to realize some things:

1) It is not illegal to say Merry Christmas in the United States. Happy Holidays is a generic greeting that has been around for close to forty years because Hanukkah is also this time of year and in recent years, Kwanza is also celebrated at this time.

2) No one can be put on the terrorist watch list for yelling anything. If that was the case the fucking data base would require every embassy and law enforcement agency to house computers in a building the size of Walmart.

People get a grip.

Obama is not going to take your guns away, in fact he supports the second amendment and your right to own guns.

Obama is a liberal, not a communist, Nazi, Fascist, Muslim, anti christian or the anti Christ.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 5:47:23 AM

Owner59

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Who...EXACTLY, is not allowing folks to say "Marry Christmas"?

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 5:50:12 AM

jlf1961

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I have no clue.

It goes back to the Church and State thread. I know of atheist groups and other groups who have filled lawsuits against towns setting up a nativity scene on public property, and I seem to remember one lawsuit in the 80's against a town erecting a Christmas tree, but I have never heard ANYONE say you cant say merry Christmas.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 6:31:33 AM

Moonhead

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The first example I can remember hearing of the whole "They is banning Christmas!" nonsense, was during the looney left scare stories of the mid '80s. It's one of the more histrionic stories that the the more little englanderish red tops used to keep passing off, no matter how often it was debunked or how free of any substantiation any such stories were.
Given that one of the main papers that came out with this crap back then was the Mail, and that there's a few of the ...less grounded... neocon massive on here who seem to think that's a viable news source rather than a tabloid that makes the National Enquirer look like the Herald Tribune, I wonder whether this hysteria from the wing nut right might have its roots on my own side of the pond.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 6:33:00 AM

DarkSteven

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Please note that the characters are not drawn in Schultz' style. So the artist is illegally stealing copyrighted characters for his own use, against the interests of the estate, while complaining about the lack of freedoms in America. Odd.

Many businesses have told their employees not to wish Merry Christmas because touchy Jews and atheists will be offended. So this is not government sanctioned but private sector activity.

Any Muslim yelling "Kill Americans" is likely in a Muslim country and not about to travel to the US any time soon, The terrorist watch list IIRC only deals with people that live in the US or travel to it. Nobody, vet or otherwise, will be put on any list for yelling "Defend the Constitution". He might be prosecuted for disturbing the peace if he does it too loudly.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 6:35:53 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Please note that the characters are not drawn in Schultz' style. So the artist is illegally stealing copyrighted characters for his own use, against the interests of the estate, while complaining about the lack of freedoms in America. Odd.

Maybe it's a still from one of the animated cartoons, rather than from the newspaper strips? Still a swipe either way though, as you say.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 6:47:16 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Please note that the characters are not drawn in Schultz' style. So the artist is illegally stealing copyrighted characters for his own use, against the interests of the estate, while complaining about the lack of freedoms in America. Odd.

Maybe it's a still from one of the animated cartoons, rather than from the newspaper strips? Still a swipe either way though, as you say.

Pretty sure it's from the classic "Charlie Brown Christmas" TV special. The tiny little tree is definitely from it.

On the subject, As far as I know, I do keep abreast of this sort of thing, there has never been any court case over someone saying "Merry christmas" the issue started, as near as anyone can tell, with commercial entities telling their employees to say "Happy Holidays" so as to be inclusive of everyone out of fear of offending/excluding non christians.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 6:56:53 AM

Hillwilliam

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I tell people Merry Christmas.
Anyone who doesn't like it, fukum.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 7:00:47 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Please note that the characters are not drawn in Schultz' style. So the artist is illegally stealing copyrighted characters for his own use, against the interests of the estate, while complaining about the lack of freedoms in America. Odd.

well if that is true, then I hope the estate goes after tv guide too because they used the same pic in one of their articles. http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/charlie-brown-christmas/191440 or maybe they stole it from the author?

Many businesses have told their employees not to wish Merry Christmas because touchy Jews and atheists will be offended. So this is not government sanctioned but private sector activity.

Any Muslim yelling "Kill Americans" is likely in a Muslim country and not about to travel to the US any time soon, The terrorist watch list IIRC only deals with people that live in the US or travel to it. Nobody, vet or otherwise, will be put on any list for yelling "Defend the Constitution". He might be prosecuted for disturbing the peace if he does it too loudly.

This I would have to agree with.

eta I think it sucks when people use a kids cartoon to make a political point.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 12/13/2012 7:01:22 AM >

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 7:01:38 AM

jlf1961

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As I said, it is not all Conservatives saying these things, I will even go on to say that MOST conservatives may not believe in what Obama stands for, but they do not overtly lie about what he is doing or has done.

I will even admit that some liberal groups have blatantly misrepresented Mitt Romney by twisting words and phrases from the election.

This is a two fold problem, the first part is that people will actually print lies (on both sides of the fence) and the second part is that the public will not check the facts and take the statements as gospel, which points to the gullibility of the American public.

The average American, no matter what party, is so ready to believe the worst about politicians that they do not research the facts themselves. They let the media and talking heads do their thinking for them.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 7:30:42 AM

Owner59

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I`m waiting for the sane ones to man up and say hey....you guys are making us all look bad.

IMHO........their silence is similar to those who didn`t support or commit discrimination themselves during the civil/voting rights movement........but also didn`t speak out against it....either.

At the root of this BS tho, are folks seeking to make money from a fake issue and rile up the less sophisticated and easily duped. Millions are made this way.It`s a cottage industry.

If you say it long enough and often enough......it becomes true,for some folks.Even if it`s completely un-supportable BS.

How many years has this secret war on Christmas been going on.....according to fake-news?

I have some sympathy for those who would like to see less commercialization and more spirituality in the holiday.But that has NOTHING to do with government or conservative social engineers but is rather a purely personal mater.

At the end of Charles Schultz`s great Christmas cartoon.....he has Lionel very soberly tell the Christmas story.Done tastefully and with kids in mind.....Mr Schultz ends the cartoon with what Christmas is really about.

And no one got offended.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/13/2012 7:32:21 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 7:36:42 AM

Owner59

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Another huge fake issue.......welfare fraud.

Brought to us 24/7 by fuckz-news......

To the point of folks repeating the bull shit here.....starting bullshit threads with the talking points.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 7:42:05 AM

subspaceseven

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and here is the latest one by grover...it seems "putting him on a leash" is what the GOP and he plan on doing to the President..the last line shows how out of touch people are who buy this guys BS>>>

NORQUIST: We got lots of things Obama claims to be for, and we will make — we, the Republicans in the House and Senate — will make him actually make those spending restraints, in order to get the continuing resolution out [for] a week, two weeks, a month. Obama will be on a very short leash, fiscally speaking, over the next four years. He’s not gonna have any fun at all. He may decide to go blow up small countries he can’t pronounce because it won’t be any fun to be here, because he won’t be able to spend the kind of cash he was hoping to.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 10:41:02 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
well if that is true, then I hope the estate goes after tv guide too because they used the same pic in one of their articles. http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/charlie-brown-christmas/191440 or maybe they stole it from the author?

What's fair use of a copyrighted property? The people who publish the tv guide will be paying whoever owns Schultz's intellectual property since he croaked, and whoever paid him for the rights to film his cartoons.
Trying to equate that with somebody nicking a copyrighted (and famous, if DK is to be believed) and using it for a hoddy piece of hysterical scaremongering is pretty cheap, isn't it?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 10:43:15 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

and here is the latest one by grover...it seems "putting him on a leash" is what the GOP and he plan on doing to the President..the last line shows how out of touch people are who buy this guys BS>>>

NORQUIST: We got lots of things Obama claims to be for, and we will make — we, the Republicans in the House and Senate — will make him actually make those spending restraints, in order to get the continuing resolution out [for] a week, two weeks, a month. Obama will be on a very short leash, fiscally speaking, over the next four years. He’s not gonna have any fun at all. He may decide to go blow up small countries he can’t pronounce because it won’t be any fun to be here, because he won’t be able to spend the kind of cash he was hoping to.

So blowing up small countries is cheaper than setting your own house in order, then.
What planet does this fuckwit live on? I suppose that's what reading Ayn Ran (rather than proper SF like Robert E Howard and Alfred Bester) as an adolescent does to you...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to subspaceseven)

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 11:55:55 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
well if that is true, then I hope the estate goes after tv guide too because they used the same pic in one of their articles. http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/charlie-brown-christmas/191440 or maybe they stole it from the author?

What's fair use of a copyrighted property? The people who publish the tv guide will be paying whoever owns Schultz's intellectual property since he croaked, and whoever paid him for the rights to film his cartoons.
Trying to equate that with somebody nicking a copyrighted (and famous, if DK is to be believed) and using it for a hoddy piece of hysterical scaremongering is pretty cheap, isn't it?

Sorry, I misread DS's statement to mean the authors created the picture.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 12:00:25 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
well if that is true, then I hope the estate goes after tv guide too because they used the same pic in one of their articles. http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/charlie-brown-christmas/191440 or maybe they stole it from the author?

What's fair use of a copyrighted property? The people who publish the tv guide will be paying whoever owns Schultz's intellectual property since he croaked, and whoever paid him for the rights to film his cartoons.
Trying to equate that with somebody nicking a copyrighted (and famous, if DK is to be believed) and using it for a hoddy piece of hysterical scaremongering is pretty cheap, isn't it?

AP sources the image to the special here:
http://www.mail.com/entertainment/lifestyle/1618250-charlie-brown-peanuts-pals-head-to-big-screen.html

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 12:04:38 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Who...EXACTLY, is not allowing folks to say "Marry Christmas"?

Happened in 2005

http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/walmart.asp

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 2:26:39 PM

jlf1961

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After reading the wal-mart line, I will once again say.

The DATE for Christmas was set by Emperor Constantine, who chose the same day as a high feast for the Roman sun god.

quote:

Either as a means to unify his empire, or to make converting to Christianity easier, Constantine sought to blend Christian and pagan traditions. At that time, two prominent pagan winter festivals were celebrated. The first, starting on December 17 and lasting seven days, honored Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture. The second, starting on December 25 and lasting through January 1, commemorated the birth of Mithras, the Persian god of light. Constantine merged many of the traditions from these festivals with the Nativity story in the Bible and Christmas was born. From its beginning, Christmas was a holiday (or holy day), gifts were exchanged, families and friends gathered to feast, and a birth was celebrated; just like in the Roman and Persian festivities.

The celebration is of the birth of Christ, not based in Siberian Shamanism, again that is written history.

As for the traditional trappings of Christmas, such as the tree, mistletoe and other odds and ends, they were adopted by the early Catholic Church (Please remember that for the longest period of History since Christ, the Catholic Church was the ONLY church.) to make it easier for pagans to assimilate into the church.

For that matter, All hollows eve and all saints day are adopted pagan customs, eggs were not a part of the earliest Easter celebrations, and I think the Easter egg came from Ireland, not sure so dont quote me.

Not bashing Christian holidays, but, lets face a few facts, No one knows the date and day that Christ was born, unfortunately, no one that was present at the event had enough sense of mind to actually record the date for future generations. Easter is on no set date because it is at the same time as passover, and I can guarantee you that there is no Rabbit hopping around when Christ was crucified. All saints day was moved to the same day as Samhain to make it easier to accept the Gaelic festival tradition along with the beliefs of the church at the time.

Of course, some ultra conservative Christian fundamentalist lunatics will say I am the minion of Satan for attacking Christian holidays.

Now for the actual history of the Anti Merry Christmas crusade.

In December 2010 a lawsuit brought by the ACLU against the Mesquite, NV school district for using the phrase "Merry Christmas."

Conservatives please note the ACLU does not in any way speak for all liberals. Also note that Obama had nothing to do with this act. In fact President Obama has wished many people a Merry Christmas, it has even been caught by various media outlets, but I digress.

quote:

If Christmas has any enemies, chief among them may be Protestantism — the form of Christianity adhered to by most of those dedicated to "saving" Christmas from godless atheists. The reason is because Protestantism eliminated most of the many holy days that once made up the long Christmas holiday season. Protestants removed much of the religious significance of the holidays, leaving behind very little that could stand up to the relentless commercialization and secularization that characterize modern society.

Conservative evangelical Christians complain about people taking the "Christ" out of Christmas, but they seem to forget that they have already taken the "Mass" out of Christmas (Mass being a service including Holy Communion). When was the last time a prominent figure on the Christian Right has argued that Americans should remember to attend Mass on this Holy Day? I've never seen it and I don't expect to ever do so. This is just one of many masses that have been excised from the season.

Yes atheists have filled lawsuits against christmas trees, nativity scenes, school christmas pagents, even school choirs singing traditional christmas carols. However, again I must stress that not all Liberals are Atheists, and not all Atheists are liberals.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: Anti Obama Propoganda by conservatives - 12/13/2012 3:30:10 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
In December 2010 a lawsuit brought by the ACLU against the Mesquite, NV school district for using the phrase "Merry Christmas."

Made up hysterical nonsense.
http://legalclips.nsba.org/?p=3774

(in reply to jlf1961)

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