The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday.

The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/17/2012 8:45:34 PM)
Since Friday, I have been trying to find threat assessment reports for soft targets put out by Homeland Security. According to what I have found, the definition of a soft target is any building or facility with large numbers of people and low security. Examples were schools, malls, sports and concert venues. So someone was aware that security at schools was an issue. The only thing I could find on security at any of those type of facilities was a .pdf file telling mall security guards how to recognize a threat and report it. Other than that was a page on their website on how a school district could apply for a grant for funding to improve security and link to the The 2009 National Infrastructure Protection Plan page which notes sector specific problems, and then a link to the Sector-Specific Agency (SSA), to lead a collaborative process for critical infrastructure protection within each of the 18 critical infrastructure sectors. That leads you to a page declaring that December 2012 is Critical Infrastructure Protection and Resilience Month. At no point does it offer constructive information for anyone at a school district to asses and secure trouble areas. Okay, there is a known threat problem, there are Homeland Security pages that are supposed to help identify the problem areas, and then a page about a month where the main focus is the problem, but no information on how to fix the problem, what the possible threats are, or who to contact to find that information out. Under the "What you can do" heading there are these choices: Sign up for training, subscribe to NIPP news, Make a business plan, and if you see something say something. In the training section there is nothing dealing with schools, but a lot dealing with various businesses. If I was a school district employee given the task of researching suggestions for school security I would come up with nothing.

Hillwilliam -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/17/2012 8:53:54 PM)
What I see in this is that, once again, Homeland Security is proving to be useful as tits on a boar.

jlf1961 -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/17/2012 9:02:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam What I see in this is that, once again, Homeland Security is proving to be useful as tits on a boar. Try a search for search for "Homeland security report on possible threat types to soft targets" this is the only link with useful information

TheHeretic -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/17/2012 10:37:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 If I was a school district employee given the task of researching suggestions for school security I would come up with nothing. If you were a school district employee given such a task, and your methodology was a Google search... well, I figure the union would make sure you couldn't be fired. Plain old operational security. Don't tell the other guy what you are doing. I'd be far more upset if you had found much online. Call the local PD, and start moving up the ladder from there. Work your way into a trip to DC, and an FBI seminar or two. They might make you sign for the literature. When the guy started shooting in Clackamas Town Center (that was the mall I went to, for many years), it was a blessing he was a lousy shot, with a weapon that jammed, but it was no coincidence that 150 officers from multiple jurisdictions responded, or that the employees got the customers into the stores, closed the gates, and moved them into the back. The active shooter plan went right into action. It's a good tactic, but now any future guy who does his psychotic homework will know about it.

jlf1961 -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/17/2012 10:43:21 PM)
I was doing a quick and dirty search just to find out who to contact. Yes, I would contact the police, but considering the "terrorist" threat, I would want the most information I could get. I could not find a single point of contact. Aside from metal detectors, airport x ray machines, and ballistic glass in doors and windows, which is what our local police told the principle of one of the high schools in town, of course the school board shot that down as too expensive.

Owner59 -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/17/2012 11:22:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 If I was a school district employee given the task of researching suggestions for school security I would come up with nothing. If you were a school district employee given such a task, and your methodology was a Google search... well, I figure the union would make sure you couldn't be fired. Plain old operational security. Don't tell the other guy what you are doing. I'd be far more upset if you had found much online. Call the local PD, and start moving up the ladder from there. Work your way into a trip to DC, and an FBI seminar or two. They might make you sign for the literature. When the guy started shooting in Clackamas Town Center (that was the mall I went to, for many years), it was a blessing he was a lousy shot, with a weapon that jammed, but it was no coincidence that 150 officers from multiple jurisdictions responded, or that the employees got the customers into the stores, closed the gates, and moved them into the back. The active shooter plan went right into action. It's a good tactic, but now any future guy who does his psychotic homework will know about it. Oh it`s the union`s and big government`s fault.......[8\|] Guess you`re unaware that 4 of the victims were in a union and that all the cops who responded were too.... .... Thank god you`re not in charge protecting anyone`s life or limb.........just pathetic,robotic union bashing.

tj444 -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/17/2012 11:31:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Since Friday, I have been trying to find threat assessment reports for soft targets put out by Homeland Security. I tried to get a map for the water and sewer services in a city a few months ago.. i was told they could not give that to me for reasons of security (from Homeland Security).. in other words, that info made public could be the exact info the bad guys need.. That might be the reason you (the public) cant find anything.. wouldnt that info floating around out there for anyone to read sorta defeat the purpose behind "security"? ..someone with the right clearance level might be able to get that info tho..

jlf1961 -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/17/2012 11:35:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Since Friday, I have been trying to find threat assessment reports for soft targets put out by Homeland Security. I tried to get a map for the water and sewer services in a city a few months ago.. i was told they could not give that to me for reasons of security (from Homeland Security).. in other words, that info made public could be the exact info the bad guys need.. That might be the reason you (the public) cant find anything.. wouldnt that info floating around out there for anyone to read sorta defeat the purpose behind "security"? ..someone with the right clearance level might be able to get that info tho.. There is a .pdf file on the web for mall security on how to spot a threat. My personal opinion, put a metal detector at each entrance with a security officer checking bags. As for the detector replace the factory standard alarm with a 100db siren if the thing goes off.

tj444 -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/17/2012 11:38:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 My personal opinion, put a metal detector at each entrance with a security officer checking bags. As for the detector replace the factory standard alarm with a 100db siren if the thing goes off. yes, you have stated that several times.. I personally would not shop at such a place tho..

jlf1961 -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/17/2012 11:43:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 My personal opinion, put a metal detector at each entrance with a security officer checking bags. As for the detector replace the factory standard alarm with a 100db siren if the thing goes off. yes, you have stated that several times.. I personally would not shop at such a place tho.. That is the standard DHS suggestion according to some reporters. Also according to DHS, Schools and Malls are the most likely targets, followed by sport and concert venues, parks, and about 10 other facilities.

Moonhead -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/18/2012 5:07:10 AM)
Wasn't there some concealed carry evangelist throwing a tantrum (in Florida, iirc) over the summer because a local Doctor's had discharged his kids as they didn't want him bringing his guns to the surgery? If the DHS measures aren't doing any good, that could well have a lot more to do with wankers with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement like this refusing to allow the measures to take place, rather than them being inherently useless...

tj444 -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/18/2012 7:15:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 That is the standard DHS suggestion according to some reporters. Also according to DHS, Schools and Malls are the most likely targets, followed by sport and concert venues, parks, and about 10 other facilities. you are certainly welcome and entitled to turn every building in the US into a fortress.. Its not a good quality of life for me and not one where I want to live.. there are many other countries with my saner populations & govt.. Being witness to what America is doing to itself is like watching a train wreck in progress and not being able to stop it.. jmo..

SimplyMichael -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/18/2012 7:28:36 AM)
Maginot line

Moonhead -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/18/2012 8:37:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Maginot line Is that hyperbole, or just a non sequitor?

slvemike4u -> RE: The, I hate to use the word, conspiracy that led up to Friday. (12/18/2012 9:38:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 If I was a school district employee given the task of researching suggestions for school security I would come up with nothing. If you were a school district employee given such a task, and your methodology was a Google search... well, I figure the union would make sure you couldn't be fired. Plain old operational security. Don't tell the other guy what you are doing. I'd be far more upset if you had found much online. Call the local PD, and start moving up the ladder from there. Work your way into a trip to DC, and an FBI seminar or two. They might make you sign for the literature. When the guy started shooting in Clackamas Town Center (that was the mall I went to, for many years), it was a blessing he was a lousy shot, with a weapon that jammed, but it was no coincidence that 150 officers from multiple jurisdictions responded, or that the employees got the customers into the stores, closed the gates, and moved them into the back. The active shooter plan went right into action. It's a good tactic, but now any future guy who does his psychotic homework will know about it. Aren't these the folks some now wish to arm ?

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