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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 8:57:01 PM   
adx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: adx
the school shooting that scared me the most happen in the 70s at Kent State.

that is interesting since you werent even born then..

it was a very shameful & shocking event in US history tho..

working for the university and walking through the parking lot with the places all the kids die laying marked puts it in your mind. I wasent alive but I grew up right on top of where it happen.

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:02:35 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adx

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: adx
the school shooting that scared me the most happen in the 70s at Kent State.

that is interesting since you werent even born then..

it was a very shameful & shocking event in US history tho..

working for the university and walking through the parking lot with the places all the kids die laying marked puts it in your mind. I wasent alive but I grew up right on top of where it happen.

ahhh, I see & yes, that makes much more sense.. Not that I have read every post in every thread about guns & schools, etc.. but you are the first one to bring that specific shooting up, and that time it wasnt a crazed killer, it was the govt & cops that were gunning down unarmed students..

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:02:49 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I'd have my CCW.



Not I. I could get one (and that's a scary thought, really), but have absolutely no interest in doing so, or carrying as part of my daily life. On those rare occasions when I feel a need to have a gun on my person, I'm not going anyplace where I expect to encounter a cop who might want to see my permit anyway.



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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:06:18 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

Mari, guns are tools for making things dead. I own a couple, just for that purpose.


Thanks Rich, I get tired of reading/hearing so many state they own "guns" to keep locked behind a case the majority of the time, OR only for hunting.

Thanks



Are you sure this time?

And yes, I completely agree. The gun fetishists are just annoying as all hell.

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:18:29 PM   
adx


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/6/2010
Status: offline 		i always find it odd kent isent talked about more when gun control come up. we cant trust our government with guns. we certainly better have them.

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:19:27 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		Would you feel better if everyone here was chanting... Ban all guns?

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:19:36 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I'd have my CCW.

Not I. I could get one (and that's a scary thought, really), but have absolutely no interest in doing so, or carrying as part of my daily life. On those rare occasions when I feel a need to have a gun on my person, I'm not going anyplace where I expect to encounter a cop who might want to see my permit anyway.


Carrying wouldn't be my typical mode, either. But, from all the CCW people I've talked to, there is invaluable instruction in those classes, and, in the off-chance I'm venturing somewhere I might need it? I'm legal to do so. Ohio is an open-carry State. Any legally registered gun one has, one can carry down the street in plain view. A friend of min who's an office in Cleveland said that was one of the best ways to get your ass shot off, though. If something is going down, the first people taken out are the ones with guns that could stop them.

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What I support:

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:20:41 PM   
epiphiny43


Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline 		Most people have a fantasy version of what the role of the police is in our republic. They are responsible for protecting NOBODY. Theoretically, they are responsible for protecting the community, but not any single person. They are responsible for reacting to a crime once it's committed. Some threats are crimes in themself, you have to establish credibility to get a response, and usually an identity or location for them to work with. Occasionally some of the more motivated LEOs manage to get permission to do proactive work. Which usually gets questions about funding and taxes. Normally, they are responsible for catching Someone the DA can make a case against. If it happens to be the actual criminal, hooray?
A neighbor has a restraining order against her ice addicted husband. He isn't to approach within 100 ft. of the property. He's been arrested 7 times for violation of the RO and actually been on the property well over 100 times. What's wrong with this picture? He has explicitly threatened her life. The police tell her to call when he shows on the property. We reckon the only reason she is still alive is his mother is in town and has rented a house where she is supervising him. She blames the evil wife for lying about her darling son. This wife needs a gun! Or to move to another country. Her children were born here and won't transition well to her home, Japan.
Every one is just hoping he gets really high and finally shows his underside to his mother in ways she can't stay in denial about and she gets him put in some institutional rehab before he makes the front page. There are Thousands of cases just like this and worse all over the country. The police are totally undermanned and frankly, incompetent to deal with this sort of family violence and dysfunction. And if they weren't, they wouldn't have the legal tools to take much action. The prisons are already full of people who were actually violent,(Or caught up on the War on Drugs!) and are even greater dangers. Until someone is bleeding out on the ground or getting patched back together in the ER, the situation is not one they usually get involved in constructively. Which is way too late. Exactly these situations are why victims advocates are stressed by stupid laws that make at-risk citizens wait during 'cooling off' periods before completing a gun buy. When the ex- is stalking and hasn't slept for days with his disorder, you don't need to cool off, you need lethal force on your side to keep you alive.

Another reason? "Happiness is a warm gun." Like Jazz, if we have to explain it, you still wouldn't get it.

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 12/18/2012 9:23:57 PM >

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:23:21 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adx

i always find it odd kent isent talked about more when gun control come up. we cant trust our government with guns. we certainly better have them.

I actually sorta expected that kinda incident to happen when OWS was protesting & the cops were out in full force with their riot gear and such.. that could have happened again so easily..

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:24:55 PM   
adx


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Status: offline 		no

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:28:40 PM   
oreogirl


Posts: 1039
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Safe, sane, and consensual is not just for a kinky lifestyle.

I'm a person who grew up with guns and bullets in the house ( my dad's a cop ). I am pro gun control. TO AN EXTENT. As a regular Joe Schmo, I don't think I need a high caliber assault rifle or fully automatic weapon to feel safe. On the other hand, I do agree that people have the right to bear arms, and should do so if they choose. I think the most important thing that needs to be in any bill for gun control is that there must be an application to purchase a firearm, a psych evaluation to go in tandem with the application, a license to bear that firearm, and a waiting period to obtain said firearm. I absolutely believe the psych eval is necessary. The evaluation will HOPEFULLY weed out those people who want to own a firearm with the intent to do harm versus those who want protection or to add into a collection. It may be a simplistic explanation, but it's the one that I believe in the most. As it stands, I can travel a few hours south and just walk into Walmart and get a gun.

I also live in an urban city with a high crime rate. I still don't own a gun. Do I trust the police to fully protect me? Not at all ( Sorry dad and uncle __ ) . Do I believe that they are hardworking individuals who put their lives on the line every day to make sure that I have a semblance of safety? ABSO FUCKING LUTELY! ( GO SUPER DAD )Would I feel safer with a gun in my house? Not really. I simply say that for the good of the majority, the minority should be openly screened when their right has the potential to cause harm to so many. But the point is that it is my right to choose whether to own a gun or not, and no matter what way I decide, I am exercising my rights as a citizen of this country.



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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:36:03 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think included with all that should be a requirement that you have a place to secure the weapons... and that place isnt under the bed or in the back of the closet.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to oreogirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:39:03 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Epiphany, if you are in the US, your friend doesn't need a gun, or to leave the country. She needs to move, and she needs to get some better damn assistance than what she is connected with. There are programs that can even get her a new identity.

And if the situation is as you describe, any gun she bought would most likely be used against her, anyway.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to epiphiny43)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:43:38 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43
Exactly these situations are why victims advocates are stressed by stupid laws that make at-risk citizens wait during 'cooling off' periods before completing a gun buy. When the ex- is stalking and hasn't slept for days with his disorder, you don't need to cool off, you need lethal force on your side to keep you alive.


that is actually one example where I do agree with having protection, especially since the cops and courts dont take domestic violence seriously enough.. there is also tasers but there are restrictions on them in certain states too..

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 9:47:32 PM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
ahhh, I see & yes, that makes much more sense.. Not that I have read every post in every thread about guns & schools, etc.. but you are the first one to bring that specific shooting up, and that time it wasnt a crazed killer, it was the govt & cops that were gunning down unarmed students..

I actually sorta expected that kinda incident to happen when OWS was protesting & the cops were out in full force with their riot gear and such.. that could have happened again so easily..

It did. But at least so far there haven't been any deaths. Plenty of hospitalizations and ample evidence of police brutality but no deaths. The UC Davis incident was less than a year ago. So far they've been going slap-happy with the pepper spray and the batons and a bean bag guns here and there and the occasional flash and smoke grenades and whatnot but they've managed not to kill anyone and they haven't fired lead bullets at anyone that I know of.

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 10:02:37 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
ahhh, I see & yes, that makes much more sense.. Not that I have read every post in every thread about guns & schools, etc.. but you are the first one to bring that specific shooting up, and that time it wasnt a crazed killer, it was the govt & cops that were gunning down unarmed students..

I actually sorta expected that kinda incident to happen when OWS was protesting & the cops were out in full force with their riot gear and such.. that could have happened again so easily..

It did. But at least so far there haven't been any deaths. Plenty of hospitalizations and ample evidence of police brutality but no deaths. The UC Davis incident was less than a year ago. So far they've been going slap-happy with the pepper spray and the batons and a bean bag guns here and there and the occasional flash and smoke grenades and whatnot but they've managed not to kill anyone and they haven't fired lead bullets at anyone that I know of.

yes i know there were some hit by rubber bullets but not lead ones & some were hurt.. but even a taser or lesser weapon used on the wrong person can kill them.. No one died tho like with Kent State.. I expected there to be dead from some of the riots, I was surprised there wasnt (cops can be unpredictable).. the govt didnt want to create OWS martyrs & they are lucky they didnt.. I dont expect OWS to do much now tho, they have lost their momentum and not a problem for the govt.. (even tho OWSers think otherwise)..

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 10:21:31 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I have thought about this before answering.

I do trust the local sheriff's department

As for the government, I would not trust the state or federal government to properly dispose of used toilet paper.

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 11:26:39 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Now that Kent State was brought up, I think of Ruby Ridge (1992) and Waco (1993). Sure, the government was after fanatics, but did they have to shoot 13 year old Sammy Weaver (Ruby Ridge) in the back, or Vicky Weaver in the head while she was holding her baby? Or kill 74 people in Waco, 19 of whom were kids?

It's reasons like these (albeit they are rare) when the government gets totally out of control, that people fight to keep the right to bear arms - a right put in place to protect us from our own government.

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/18/2012 11:48:48 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
It's reasons like these (albeit they are rare) when the government gets totally out of control, that people fight to keep the right to bear arms - a right put in place to protect us from our own government.

well.. truth of the matter, the govt has more manpower and weapons than you do (alone or in a group).. sure you can fight them with an arsenal of weapons and ammo, but then you get the Wacos and Ruby Ridges..

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RE: Thread 1,000,001/ Can we trust our government/the p... - 12/19/2012 12:56:00 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I would like those that own guns on here, or are strong components of NOT changing any of the gun laws, to tell me WHY they own guns, and WHY they feel so strongly about having their current freedoms.



There was an American author giving an interview on TV here the other night, I wish I could remember his name as he was interesting, anyway he said that Americans are as taxed and regulated and chained to the capitalist consumer treadmill as any other western country, the difference is that guns give many a sense of freedom that they really don't in reality have. Basically, the love of guns is a fetish not based on a sense of reality but a longing for freedom the people who love guns don't have. (Nor anyone else has)

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