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RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 3:35:25 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
You said it, not me, Im just wondering where your "exact" people who hate gun owners come from
or were you using written inexactitudes???
Or just being an ass?





Lucy, I've already decided there isn't much point in any engagement with one poster who takes anything broadbased I may say as a direct personal attack, and will then happily feel completely justified in resorting to filthy slurs on my character in response.

Let's just stipulate that you were nowhere near my mind in the original comment. Do you deny the existence of such contributions to the conversation?


So, you cant say specifically, who "hates everyone with a gun", not even one persons post, as opposed to anyone who has a problem with a particular post or posters.
I am one of those deeply anti gun people, I dont care who knows it. my ideals and my reality are different and I know that. I would love to see guns disappear. I know that is never going to happen so I move and grow.

To state anyone "hates anyone with a gun" is facetious, a bare faced lie and expected from people unhinged. Not from you.
Filthy slurs??? please dont pretend to be lilly white in personal attacks. That just makes you appear to be utterly dishonest.
now, have a good day!!!

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(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 6:49:15 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I know that is never going to happen so I move and grow.




Which separates you from those posters I had in mind, Lucy.

As you have likely noticed, I'm happy to have a good, "roll in the mud." sort of argument. We can draw a line however, at choosing to assign a personal position to another poster which I know to be patently false. That's not how I roll, and I have chosen to simply not bother with those who do resort to such, as well as those who can never muster anything else. Note that we are still talking.

Thanks for the good wishes, but all indicators say today is going to be the sort of miserable motherfucker that I don't get paid nearly enough to put up with. I hope yours is better.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 6:52:11 AM   
Lucylastic


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 7:18:11 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
All i am saying is that i had heard that the attorney generals of three states filed briefs with scotus for Heller that had some such language. A friend brought it up today and i posted it. Problem,is that its rather esoteric and i couldnt,find,it with,google.

Trivial to find:
http://thegooddemocrat.wordpress.com/2007/05/22/there-is-no-right-of-secession-guaranteed-by-the-constitution/


I am not surprised that a document forming the union of states has the instructions for leaving that union. The Declaration of Independence, however, does give to the people, the duty to throw off the chains of unacceptable government and to re-form an acceptable government.

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What I support:

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 7:24:56 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I am not surprised that a document forming the union of states has the instructions for leaving that union. The Declaration of Independence, however, does give to the people, the duty to throw off the chains of unacceptable government and to re-form an acceptable government.


Isn't this a myth since post independence, only 10% of new US citizens had the vote and taxes were imposed that weren't imposed before, in reality, there was less democracy than under the British. What independence did was consolidate the power of the colonial hierarchy. The Empire loyalists escaping the pograms by fleeing to Canada found more freedom there than they would have had in the new USA. There seems to be a dichotomy amongst Americans in the myth they believe and the reality that was lived.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 7:31:47 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

SM, I have no idea what's involved in secession, but I suspect just filing a brief won't suffice.


Yes...the point is that there are two issues where states are seriously telling the feds to fuck off, pot and guns. Its one think for some nut jobs to sign internet petitions, its a very different thing for a state to officially put the feds on notice.

It might matter if it hadhappened. Ir didn't so why are you even mentioning this?

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 6:47:21 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am on a phone


I am on a 3 legged stool.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 6:53:29 PM   
Lucylastic


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 7:24:06 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I am not surprised that a document forming the union of states has the instructions for leaving that union. The Declaration of Independence, however, does give to the people, the duty to throw off the chains of unacceptable government and to re-form an acceptable government.

Isn't this a myth since post independence, only 10% of new US citizens had the vote and taxes were imposed that weren't imposed before, in reality, there was less democracy than under the British. What independence did was consolidate the power of the colonial hierarchy. The Empire loyalists escaping the pograms by fleeing to Canada found more freedom there than they would have had in the new USA. There seems to be a dichotomy amongst Americans in the myth they believe and the reality that was lived.


How could it be a myth when it's very easily read in the DoI?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 7:28:09 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Didnt three states file briefs stating they woul leave the union if the scotus said the 2nd eas about a collective right. It wad the DC pistol ban case.


Montana (first of myriad references):
http://reason.com/blog/2008/02/20/montana-wrong-heller-decision

Oklahoma (only thing I found):
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/montana-oklahoma-threaten-secede-t64016.html

Hope this helps.

Threats to secede always bring to mind the late, great Lewis Grizzard. When folk nearby threatened to flounce away from his beloved home state of Georgia, he'd helpfully remind them, "Delta is ready when you are."


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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 7:38:39 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		AMENDMENT XIV

SECTION 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The attempt to secede would hit many barriers.

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 7:49:19 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
AMENDMENT XIV
SECTION 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
The attempt to secede would hit many barriers.


I'm thinking that this would have be passed in the States before they could seriously attempt to secede. I have a feeling, too, that the US Constitution would have to be nullified for there to be any chance of a secession.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 8:02:32 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Thats why I say a state cannot afford to secede. At the very least, the people would have to vote on it, then those citizens who want to remain part of the Union would have to be compensated for any loss, and move, before the state could leave. And thats only a minute part of the financial problem.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: States will leave the union - 12/20/2012 10:24:28 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		In other words,it ain't happening any time soon.

Lol

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: States will leave the union - 12/21/2012 1:27:53 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I am not surprised that a document forming the union of states has the instructions for leaving that union. The Declaration of Independence, however, does give to the people, the duty to throw off the chains of unacceptable government and to re-form an acceptable government.

Isn't this a myth since post independence, only 10% of new US citizens had the vote and taxes were imposed that weren't imposed before, in reality, there was less democracy than under the British. What independence did was consolidate the power of the colonial hierarchy. The Empire loyalists escaping the pograms by fleeing to Canada found more freedom there than they would have had in the new USA. There seems to be a dichotomy amongst Americans in the myth they believe and the reality that was lived.


How could it be a myth when it's very easily read in the DoI?



Basically I'm saying you had your balls tickled.

Follow the money, the American establishment is more secure than any European establishment, even more secure than Briain's, which is very secure.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: States will leave the union - 12/21/2012 6:53:49 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

I think we'd need a couple threads, though. One for reasoned discussion, and another where all the people who hate anyone who owns a firearm can agree with each other.


We need three threads: One where all the anti-gun extremists can agree with each other, one where all the pro-gun extremists can agree with each other... and one for reasoned discussion.

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: States will leave the union - 12/21/2012 2:09:38 PM   
VideoAdminChi


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Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		FR,

Per Alpha, please continue this discussion on All things gun control go here .

Thank you for your participation.

Moderator VideoAdminChi

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 37
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