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Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more and ... - 12/20/2012 7:51:44 AM   
subspaceseven


Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline 		This is a quote from the article, the whole story is in the link. Concealed carry can be a problem, and I think this is just the tip of the iceberg...

"A Florida man defended his decision to shoot an impatient pizza customer over the weekend, citing the state’s infamous “Stand Your Ground” law.

Michael Jock, a 52-year-old resident of St. Petersburg, was standing in line behind 49-year-old Randall White at a local Little Caesars on Sunday when Jock grew angry over White’s complaints about the speed of service. The two began to shove one another, prompting Jock to pull out a .38 Taurus Ultralight Special Revolver that had been concealed on his person and fire twice, hitting White both times in the lower torso."


The police did not accept the stand your ground law and arrested the man. However there should be more responsibility placed on a person if they decided to conceal carry, if self defense is warranted, fine the law worked, but when there is not a real life threatening risk the person who uses the conceal carry weapon should have a higher standard and face a higher penalty.

If a licensed driver hits someone who is not driving, the greater responsibility lands on the person in the car. Why should the person who is allowed to conceal carry not be held to a higher standard when the weapon is used illegally?

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/19/1360511/michael-jock-shooter/







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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 11:16:09 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		But but but... How do you know he didnt FEEL his life was in danger?

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 12:22:12 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Hell, maybe he wouldn't even have got his pizza.

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 1:52:20 PM   
meatcleaver


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They ought to call the stand your ground law, the Dirty Harry law because it is as stupid as an Hollywood film and the legislator must be as simplistic as Hollywood script writers.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/20/2012 1:54:03 PM >

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 2:38:04 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Actually, if an *un*licensed driver hurts someone, they stand to receive additional penalties for driving without a license etc.
Likewise if a person is carrying a weapon illegally and hurts someone illegally.

In order to administer additional punishment, there would have to be proof in court that the bullet or car did more damage because of who pulled the trigger.
Being held to a higher standard is reserved for licensure that is more stringent than that needed to drive or carry a weapon.


quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

This is a quote from the article, the whole story is in the link. Concealed carry can be a problem, and I think this is just the tip of the iceberg...

"A Florida man defended his decision to shoot an impatient pizza customer over the weekend, citing the state’s infamous “Stand Your Ground” law.

Michael Jock, a 52-year-old resident of St. Petersburg, was standing in line behind 49-year-old Randall White at a local Little Caesars on Sunday when Jock grew angry over White’s complaints about the speed of service. The two began to shove one another, prompting Jock to pull out a .38 Taurus Ultralight Special Revolver that had been concealed on his person and fire twice, hitting White both times in the lower torso."


The police did not accept the stand your ground law and arrested the man. However there should be more responsibility placed on a person if they decided to conceal carry, if self defense is warranted, fine the law worked, but when there is not a real life threatening risk the person who uses the conceal carry weapon should have a higher standard and face a higher penalty.

If a licensed driver hits someone who is not driving, the greater responsibility lands on the person in the car. Why should the person who is allowed to conceal carry not be held to a higher standard when the weapon is used illegally?

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/19/1360511/michael-jock-shooter/









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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 7:44:23 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven
This is a quote from the article, the whole story is in the link. Concealed carry can be a problem, and I think this is just the tip of the iceberg...
"A Florida man defended his decision to shoot an impatient pizza customer over the weekend, citing the state’s infamous “Stand Your Ground” law.
Michael Jock, a 52-year-old resident of St. Petersburg, was standing in line behind 49-year-old Randall White at a local Little Caesars on Sunday when Jock grew angry over White’s complaints about the speed of service. The two began to shove one another, prompting Jock to pull out a .38 Taurus Ultralight Special Revolver that had been concealed on his person and fire twice, hitting White both times in the lower torso."
The police did not accept the stand your ground law and arrested the man. However there should be more responsibility placed on a person if they decided to conceal carry, if self defense is warranted, fine the law worked, but when there is not a real life threatening risk the person who uses the conceal carry weapon should have a higher standard and face a higher penalty.
If a licensed driver hits someone who is not driving, the greater responsibility lands on the person in the car. Why should the person who is allowed to conceal carry not be held to a higher standard when the weapon is used illegally?
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/19/1360511/michael-jock-shooter/


Hold on a second. Aren't we missing some info here? What color was White? Isn't that was really determines if it's a valid defense or not?

How is it that the "Stand Your Ground" law needs to be discarded simply because people are abusing it (why not, instead, judge a law based on how many times it's been successfully used, but not really valid?)? Maybe we should also throw out "not guilty" pleas, too. I mean, how many times has that been incorrectly claimed? Unless the defense is used to gain "not guilty" judgments, in cases where the defendant isn't truly innocent?

This assclown is claiming SYG as a defense. The cops probably had a damn good laugh about that. If he's successful with this defense, then there may be some validity to your gripes. If he's not successful using it, apparently, there wasn't anything wrong with the law.




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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 7:52:00 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		The fact that so many people are being shot in FL for no more than standing in line, having their music too loud or walking through a neighborhood, says the SYG law is ridiculous. But of course, you don't see a problem with it.

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 7:56:02 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

The fact that so many people are being shot in FL for no more than standing in line, having their music too loud or walking through a neighborhood, says the SYG law is ridiculous. But of course, you don't see a problem with it.

Those are unsucessfull claims of SYG so the law works.
It is as if you shot someone fore playing their music too loud and claimed self defense would that mean that self defense should be eliminated as a plea?

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 7:58:49 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

The fact that so many people are being shot in FL for no more than standing in line, having their music too loud or walking through a neighborhood, says the SYG law is ridiculous. But of course, you don't see a problem with it.

In FL, these incidents vastly predate stand your ground. I lived there for 18 years. I've seen people shot at for making a left turn too slowly. I then called the cops with the license number and the description of the shooter and they're like "Dafuq ya want us to do about it?"

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 8:31:28 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

The fact that so many people are being shot in FL for no more than standing in line, having their music too loud or walking through a neighborhood, says the SYG law is ridiculous. But of course, you don't see a problem with it.

In FL, these incidents vastly predate stand your ground. I lived there for 18 years. I've seen people shot at for making a left turn too slowly. I then called the cops with the license number and the description of the shooter and they're like "Dafuq ya want us to do about it?"

With that attitude it doen't matter what the law says.

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 8:39:52 PM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
The fact that so many people are being shot in FL for no more than standing in line, having their music too loud or walking through a neighborhood, says the SYG law is ridiculous. But of course, you don't see a problem with it.

I too have a lot of questions about SYG. But I agree with DS on this one. I also note Hillwilliam adding in additional information which leads one to wonder about causality.

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 8:44:35 PM   
jlf1961


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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/20/2012 10:05:53 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		I stand corrected.

SYG just seems, to me anyway, to give more people more excuses to shoot first and ask questions later.

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/21/2012 4:55:47 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver


They ought to call the stand your ground law, the Dirty Harry law because it is as stupid as an Hollywood film and the legislator must be as simplistic as Hollywood script writers.

Dirty Harry's from the left coast, though, so he's obviously a liberal softie. How about the "Bernard Goetz" law?

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/21/2012 7:28:30 AM   
LizDeluxe


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Status: offline 		The stand your ground laws where they exist are workable as written. If people employ the concept at designed, they work. This incident in the pizza parlor and the shooting over the loud music at the gas station don't fit the intent of stand your ground and don't apply. It's not a bad law if it is followed properly.


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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/21/2012 8:03:41 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
I stand corrected.
SYG just seems, to me anyway, to give more people more excuses to shoot first and ask questions later.


Erie, it's not giving them an excuse to shoot. They may try to use it to get away with it, but if they aren't getting away with it, it doesn't matter how many claim it as a defense.

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What I support:

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/21/2012 8:12:28 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

This assclown is claiming SYG as a defense. The cops probably had a damn good laugh about that. If he's successful with this defense, then there may be some validity to your gripes. If he's not successful using it, apparently, there wasn't anything wrong with the law.


SYG goes before a Judge, not a jury. One person making that decision, as opposed to 12.... Im not comfortable with.

How many people are dying because people like this man feel a false sense of bravado in pulling out a gun figuring they can always claim SYG later?

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/21/2012 10:18:37 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I'd have thought the notion that a murder case can end in a single Judge's decision rather than a jury trial would have everybody screaming in horror after all the publicity this nonsense has got, but that's obviously just me.
Still, I suppose Karl Urban got a good role out of it.

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/21/2012 10:25:54 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		No, it worries me too. The potential for corruption is simply too great. Probably not in a high profile case, but let enough money changes hands and anything is possible.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Why Do I think this is BS will be in the news more ... - 12/21/2012 10:29:19 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Hell, some of the high court Judges we have over here, paying a hooker fifty quid for a hum job would get some people an acquital, never mind lots being paid...

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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