RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (Full Version)

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DesFIP -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/23/2012 6:43:49 PM)

I have to assume none of you has a child with multiple mood disorders where there is frequently a comorbidity of Sensory Integration Dysfunction. Where a kid literally tastes things that to you are bland as though they are incredibly spicy. Where they will not eat rather than eat something that tastes horrible to them, either flavor or texture.

I envy you that. It's a real problem and when you're struggling with severe generalized anxiety disorder, high cycling bipolar disorder, oppositional defiance disorder and several other minor mood disorders at the same time, something has to go. Here, fighting over food came dead last to preventing her from killing herself. YMMV.



kalikshama -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/23/2012 7:25:46 PM)

quote:

Im really not sure what you are wanting.


An acknowledgement that given an equal amount of carbs, the food with a much lower glycemic index is the better choice for managing blood sugar levels.

http://www.glycemicindex.com/about.php

The glycemic index (GI) is a ranking of carbohydrates on a scale from 0 to 100 according to the extent to which they raise blood sugar levels after eating. Foods with a high GI are those which are rapidly digested and absorbed and result in marked fluctuations in blood sugar levels. Low-GI foods, by virtue of their slow digestion and absorption, produce gradual rises in blood sugar and insulin levels, and have proven benefits for health. Low GI diets have been shown to improve both glucose and lipid levels in people with diabetes (type 1 and type 2). They have benefits for weight control because they help control appetite and delay hunger. Low GI diets also reduce insulin levels and insulin resistance.

Recent studies from Harvard School of Public Health indicate that the risks of diseases such as type 2 diabetes and coronary heart disease are strongly related to the GI of the overall diet. In 1999, the World Health Organisation (WHO) and Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) recommended that people in industrialised countries base their diets on low-GI foods in order to prevent the most common diseases of affluence, such as coronary heart disease, diabetes and obesity.



tazzygirl -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/23/2012 8:50:54 PM)

Again, I dont know what to tell you. The ADA isnt ignoring the GI. Its merely saying that isnt the ONLY way. Are we now to take it that there is a "one true way" of managing diabetes?

http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/planning-meals/glycemic-index-and-diabetes.html

That is their position. You may agree with another position, as is your right. Having looked over the link you provided, and finding some other interesting links on my own in regards to the writer/professor... I will just say I will continue to follow the ADA's advice.

I know you are passionate about your choice of healthy living, and I admire you for that.

But if I were dealing with a picky, diabetic kid.... and the choice was down to 100 percent nutritious that she may not eat.... or something not quite to nutritious that she will eat.... eating is going to win out.



yourdarkdesire -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/23/2012 11:52:18 PM)

OK, I need to clear something up. The day I made the original post was more than a month ago. Why the shit storm now? She had lucky charms THAT MORNING!!!!!! She does not get them every day. She regularly rotates between cereals, pancakes, eggs, and toast.

She can take 45 fricking minutes to eat one slice of toast. If she is in the mood for lucky charms, which can be gone in 15 minutes, I am sorry, but she is going to get it.

It doesnt matter what the cereal is. Cheerios, rice krispies, or lucky charms. The weight is calculated to give her 15 grams of carbohydrates, usually about 18 grams. It isn't like she gets a heaping bowl full. I challenge any of you to do the math and pour out your cereal to equal 15 carbs, and see exactly how little food it is.

Consider this. She is on a food jag right now. Double chocolate Krave. One serving = 3/4 cup = 19 carbs. Now compare Muslix. One serving = 3/4 cup = 40 carbs!!!! Not only that, the Krave carbs contain 10 grams of sugar. Muslix contains 14!!!!

My girl is not on a "diet", but we measure everything. Does she get a couple of heaping spoons of rice? No. She gets. 1/4 cup = 15 carbs. She has carb targets. Usually, 40 breakfast, 50 lunch 60 dinner. Does she always get that? No. Sometimes she isnt hungry and gets less. Sometimes she is and gets more.

As for the rest of her day, I wouldn't call it regimented, but there is little variation outside of dinner. Why? Her choice. She likes what she eats. She know what good snacks are. She probably eats more fruits and vegetables than the rest of us combined.

Now about the chocolate milk. It just happened, that my 1% had gone sour, so she got pure chocolate milk. Her REGULAR routine at home is 1/4 cup chocolate, 3/4 1%. Why? #1. She will not drink white milk. Just wont do it. #2. Because the mix equals. ... 15 carbs. Now, at school, she gets pure chocolate, because I am not mixing milk every morning, for it to warm and possibly leak. This year, the school changed providers and we now get the sugar reduced chocolate milk.

Now, I admit that I have not read all the posts, but I will. But, I challenge anyone, ANYONE, who criticizes me, the come and do my job for one single day.

I want to add two more things, then I will shut up.

The point behind my original comment, and I should have been clearer, was not that it was a disasterous breakfast, and if you paid attention to the math you know it isn't, but was meant as a comment that she pours her chocolate milk onto her cereal, lol. I just find it.....yucky! Thankfully, she has since stopped that most days, preferring to eat the cereal dry to enjoy the taste more.

The last thing is this: without carbohydrates, you will die. The only thing that is carb free, besides mushrooms, is pure protein. Everything else, in broken down to carbohydrates in your body, which is then converted to glycogen and stored in the liver, until your body needs it.

Okay, I lied, one more thing. I have a challenge for each and everyone of you, whether with me or against me. Take one day and track everything you eat. Measure everything. A sandwich for lunch? Count your bread, your mayo, what ever you put on it. Do it for an entire day, and add up how many carbs you ate. But be fair. Eat as you would for a typical day. Do you drink three cans of pepsi a day? A beer with dinner? Count it. And I will guarantee that my beautiful nine year old who live with a chronic life threatening disease every single day, eats better than the majority of you. Measure it. Weigh it. Count it. Its not so easy, is it.



tj444 -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 12:28:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire
I have a challenge for each and everyone of you, whether with me or against me. Take one day and track everything you eat. Measure everything. A sandwich for lunch? Count your bread, your mayo, what ever you put on it. Do it for an entire day, and add up how many carbs you ate. But be fair. Eat as you would for a typical day. Do you drink three cans of pepsi a day? A beer with dinner? Count it. And I will guarantee that my beautiful nine year old who live with a chronic life threatening disease every single day, eats better than the majority of you. Measure it. Weigh it. Count it. Its not so easy, is it.

I never read your original post and didnt know who it was about, if it was someone here or someone from an article link.. I basically ignored that part of the OP and described me as a picky kid.. my parents did not have it easy!.. [:D] If i didnt want to eat what was cooked, i had to make myself something.. including my school lunches..

But for your challenge,.. I have done that in the past.. i kept track of everything i ate for many, many months, counting calories, carbs, sugar, fat, salt, etc etc.. I agree with you, its dam hard to keep the carbs down.. At one point I had a strict diet, I would have a salad no dressing, and just the burger patties, throwing out the bun (from a plain burger), a little ketchup on the burger or tuna/salmon in water... for lunch on the run.. rarely eating bread, not eating pasta, not eating taters.. just veggies (which also have carbs) & protein of some sort.. yeah, its hard to do.. the reason i did that was cuz i had very bad inflamation from too much carbs, especially processed carbs.. I never want to feel the pain I felt from that inflamation again..



metamorfosis -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 12:32:41 AM)

It's fair to expect parents to teach children good eating habits and exercise. It's fair to criticize someone who does not practice good eating habits and exercise... and then complains about their (or their children's) health.

I would consider Lucky Charms and chocolate milk every day to be bad eating habits, but every once in a while to be an acceptable indulgence.

I don't know enough about diabetes to comment on that angle.

ETA: I didn't like much of the food my mother made, but I had to eat it anyway, or go without. (Then again, I wasn't diabetic, and could have skipped a meal without any serious repercussions.)

ETA: I eat junk food all the time. Then again, I don't have kids.

Pam




stellauk -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 12:34:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire

OK, I need to clear something up. The day I made the original post was more than a month ago. Why the shit storm now? She had lucky charms THAT MORNING!!!!!! She does not get them every day. She regularly rotates between cereals, pancakes, eggs, and toast.

She can take 45 fricking minutes to eat one slice of toast. If she is in the mood for lucky charms, which can be gone in 15 minutes, I am sorry, but she is going to get it.

It doesnt matter what the cereal is. Cheerios, rice krispies, or lucky charms. The weight is calculated to give her 15 grams of carbohydrates, usually about 18 grams. It isn't like she gets a heaping bowl full. I challenge any of you to do the math and pour out your cereal to equal 15 carbs, and see exactly how little food it is.

Consider this. She is on a food jag right now. Double chocolate Krave. One serving = 3/4 cup = 19 carbs. Now compare Muslix. One serving = 3/4 cup = 40 carbs!!!! Not only that, the Krave carbs contain 10 grams of sugar. Muslix contains 14!!!!

My girl is not on a "diet", but we measure everything. Does she get a couple of heaping spoons of rice? No. She gets. 1/4 cup = 15 carbs. She has carb targets. Usually, 40 breakfast, 50 lunch 60 dinner. Does she always get that? No. Sometimes she isnt hungry and gets less. Sometimes she is and gets more.

As for the rest of her day, I wouldn't call it regimented, but there is little variation outside of dinner. Why? Her choice. She likes what she eats. She know what good snacks are. She probably eats more fruits and vegetables than the rest of us combined.

Now about the chocolate milk. It just happened, that my 1% had gone sour, so she got pure chocolate milk. Her REGULAR routine at home is 1/4 cup chocolate, 3/4 1%. Why? #1. She will not drink white milk. Just wont do it. #2. Because the mix equals. ... 15 carbs. Now, at school, she gets pure chocolate, because I am not mixing milk every morning, for it to warm and possibly leak. This year, the school changed providers and we now get the sugar reduced chocolate milk.

Now, I admit that I have not read all the posts, but I will. But, I challenge anyone, ANYONE, who criticizes me, the come and do my job for one single day.

I want to add two more things, then I will shut up.

The point behind my original comment, and I should have been clearer, was not that it was a disasterous breakfast, and if you paid attention to the math you know it isn't, but was meant as a comment that she pours her chocolate milk onto her cereal, lol. I just find it.....yucky! Thankfully, she has since stopped that most days, preferring to eat the cereal dry to enjoy the taste more.

The last thing is this: without carbohydrates, you will die. The only thing that is carb free, besides mushrooms, is pure protein. Everything else, in broken down to carbohydrates in your body, which is then converted to glycogen and stored in the liver, until your body needs it.

Okay, I lied, one more thing. I have a challenge for each and everyone of you, whether with me or against me. Take one day and track everything you eat. Measure everything. A sandwich for lunch? Count your bread, your mayo, what ever you put on it. Do it for an entire day, and add up how many carbs you ate. But be fair. Eat as you would for a typical day. Do you drink three cans of pepsi a day? A beer with dinner? Count it. And I will guarantee that my beautiful nine year old who live with a chronic life threatening disease every single day, eats better than the majority of you. Measure it. Weigh it. Count it. Its not so easy, is it.


I'm glad I held off posting until now, because I thought it was idiotic how anyone could make any sort of conclusion about your relationship with your daughter or your family eating habits on the basis of one example.

Lucky Charms is a crap cereal... but you know, every packaged cereal you find in a supermarket - including all the healthy ones - are also crap as well. You want to eat something healthier? Why not try dog discuits or rabbit food? Seriously.

But you know everybody eats some sort of crap - everybody, call it comfort food, soul food, but everybody at some point eats it.

If they didn't then the food industry wouldn't be able to get away with producing so much manufactured processed crap but they do because they know people will always flock to the supermarket to buy it.

All this 'healthy eating' is a marketing trick which not only sells all this processed crap in the supermarkets but also provides many in the media with an income for writing insipid, vapid articles on such subjects where they are often clueless and ignorant, such as diet, obesity, and so on. It's social engineering and people fall for it over and over and over again.

Having a healthy lifestyle isn't just about diet and food choices, and healthy eating isn't just about counting calories but about striking a balance.

People have different metabolisms, as have children, and diabetes affects people differently. I wouldn't even think of forming any sort of an opinion without knowing the person or child involved and seeing (i.e. witnessing) how diabetes affects them over a period of time. This is the thing about diabetes - it's not exactly a straightforward illness to diagnose or treat.

But I guess some people have nothing better to do but sit in judgment on others from the comfort of their computer screens.



metamorfosis -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 12:55:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire
OK, I need to clear something up. The day I made the original post was more than a month ago. Why the shit storm now?


It must be hard being used as an example, especially when what you said was so misunderstood. But the question of parental responsibility is still worthy of discussion. ETA: I don't see anything wrong with debating this as an idea. This thread doesn't have to be about you.

Pam



yourdarkdesire -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 1:00:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

It is a whole grain, vitamin fortified cereal. There are better things to eat, and there are much worse things to eat.

No sat fat or trans fat. 1.5 starches on the ADA suggested daily intakes, when I would guess the child is on the 1600-2000 calorie a day diet, which allows for up to 8 starches per day.



Also re: school lunches, no more soft drinks are allowed to be sold, only the G2 I think it is, (low sugar Gatorade) sold at secondary levels.

No fried foods, sweet potato fries instead of white potato, many more fresh fruit and veggie choices, all whole grains, I could bore you all night with the wonderful changes that we have made.






Just a quick comment JAS. Several years ago the Canadian Diabetes Association and resulting health care providers changed the way we do meal planning. We use to do the calorie count, using the food exchanges. Now, we count carbohydrates. It is an incredibly simpler system. And when dealing with a child who is learning what is good and what is not, it is much easier to you can have so many carbs, but you need to have a protein with it. I was involved with Weight Watchers many years ago, and back then, they used a food exchange system, and it was hard.



yourdarkdesire -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 1:22:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire
OK, I need to clear something up. The day I made the original post was more than a month ago. Why the shit storm now?


It must be hard being used as an example, especially when what you said was so misunderstood. But the question of parental responsibility is still worthy of discussion. ETA: I don't see anything wrong with debating this as an idea.

Pam


Thanks Pam. It is hard, and it is insulting. I get told constantly that I am a good Mom. I work my ass off to make sure my girl eats as well as any picky eater can. I would give my life for her. Our last visit with the pediatrician, nurse and dietician was a wonderful success. Her hemoglobin A1C was at 7.5 %. This number tells you a persons average blood glucose over the past three months. The day my daughter was admitted to hospital, her A1C was 19%. That meant that her blood sugar had an average around 27. In fact, before we took her to the hospital, because we were very suspicious, we tested her. (we had already been to the doctor and the lab, but had to wait for results). Her blood sugar was sooooo high, the meter couldn't even give a reading, and I believe that one went up to about 32.

So, from 19% down to 7.5%. Sure its taken time, she has been hoverin between 8-9 for several years now, but this was the breakthrough we were looking for.

Here is a link to the Mayo Clinic that talks about A1C results and what they mean. They give values in both imperial and metric systems.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/a1c-test/MY00142/DSECTION=results


Oh, and after being so high on diagnosis, we have her target down to 6.0 at meals, and 8.0 at bedtime.



MariaB -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 1:50:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders


So yeah, sorry that was long, and not answering your initial question. But I am reluctant to judge people I don't know when they say their kids won't eat anything else, because I know what it's like to be that kid.


If my youngest son was on these forums then I'm sure he would be writing to this thread. Born premature and being on long term antibiotics for kidney problems, he developed so many food allergies that even my milk put him in hospital fighting for his life.
He was brought up on chamomile tea with big effervescent calcium tablets dissolved into his baby bottles.
For the first five years of his life he couldn't eat anything that contained dairy products or anything containing wheat or barley. He couldn't eat tomatoes, apples, pineapple and anything containing nuts. He was a meat and three vedge baby from a very early age but because food had been his poison for so long he just didn't want to eat and I seriously mean he didn't want to eat anything.
At five he started to gradually lose his allergies but what he didn't ever lose was his dislike of food.
When you have a child that dislikes food because they have a fear of food then believe me, you let them eat lucky charms if thats what you can get down them.
My eldest son ate good wholesome food and not junk and he's 5ft 9 in height as a fully grown adult. My youngest son ate nothing but junk or whatever we could get down him and he is 6ft 4 as a fully grown adult. Was that the junk food that made him into a giant?



needlesandpins -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 9:24:58 AM)

i think people in this thread are getting a bit het up and taking stuff far too personally.

for a start there is a huge difference between a child that has real/serious food allergies/problems, and a child that is allowed to just be a brat about what they eat.

i don't think anyone is against any child having things in moderation, however some parents are just down right fucking lazy when it comes to feeding. there are some parents i could happily punch for the shit they put in their kids. as i've said before, kids ruling the parent is as bad as allowing a dog to rule the roost. set boundaries and stick to them. parents often give in to their kids for an easy life, but all it does is create a greater issue.

needles



yourdarkdesire -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 9:41:06 AM)

I completely agree with you needles. As well as with Pam that this is a subject worth discussion.

I just felt completely attacked with people inferring that my girl eats Lucky Charms and chocolate milk every single day, which was never even suggested. I am a mother bear, just like any mom out there. And when someone suggests that I am a bad parent, I will defend my actions and their effect on my girl to the hilt. You might have noticed this.

Also, every time we meet with her diabetes team, her food log is reviewed. They are happy with us. A meal plan is not a success or a failure by virtue of a single meal.

And as many kids do, she goes through food jags. I remember in grade seven and eight, I would eat nothing for lunch except a tuna sandwich. After that, it took a few years before I could stomach tuna again.

There have been a small few with the view that if you don't like what I make for dinner, you can go hungry. It seems to me that these people might not understand that doing this, could kill a diabetic child.

One of the first things we learned over six years ago when this started. High blood sugars over a LONG period of time will cause organ damage. ONE low can kill you.



Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 10:53:21 AM)

believe up to a certain point parents are 1000 %responcible for their kids health and eating habits.



tazzygirl -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 11:07:20 AM)

quote:

Okay, I lied, one more thing. I have a challenge for each and everyone of you, whether with me or against me. Take one day and track everything you eat. Measure everything. A sandwich for lunch? Count your bread, your mayo, what ever you put on it. Do it for an entire day, and add up how many carbs you ate. But be fair. Eat as you would for a typical day. Do you drink three cans of pepsi a day? A beer with dinner? Count it. And I will guarantee that my beautiful nine year old who live with a chronic life threatening disease every single day, eats better than the majority of you. Measure it. Weigh it. Count it. Its not so easy, is it.


I do just that. And its not easy. Even harder when they are out of sight. Having diabetes is a pain... having a child with it is a huge challenge. And, no, I didnt think you were giving your child Lucky Charms everyday. Your posts on that thread indicated otherwise.

I would have posted there, but, to me, the "I Admit" thread is not a place for debate.

The ultimate guide, here, is the A1C. Sounds like you are doing a great job!



Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 11:25:50 AM)

When I was in 6th grade. All they.offered at school for lunch was junk, there really was bot hardly any healthy choices, i
quote:

ORIGINAL: lmpishlilhellcat

Unfortunately, high schools and probably middle schools promote junk food. Maybe not intentionally, but unintentionally they do.

When I went to high school we had pop and snack machines all over the place. Specifically coke, because they were buying the school a new scoreboard. The local bagel place delivered HUGE bagels daily, we had a frozen yogurt machine, and french fries, pretzels with cheese, and pizza were served everyday of the week. You smell it and you are definitely faced with it every single. Although more recently there has been a big push to make school lunches healthier. I don't know how much of that translates to the upper levels of school. College wasn't much better. The food was disgusting.

In all fairness, I probably wouldn't have gained so much weight in college if I had a better role model as far as eating healthy. Most of the food was gross and therefore I lived on grilled cheese, cereal, and the salad bar. I'm pretty sure I wasn't getting nearly enough protein or what I needed on a daily basis.




Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 1:06:24 PM)

It was all cakes and cookies and candys and we had vending machines we could get junk from at any school hour, and lunch was stuff like pizza hut and taco bell and somedays icecream bars.



littlewonder -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 9:16:27 PM)

When I was serious about losing weight and getting healthier I counted every single calorie, fat, sugar, salt, etc....I measured out everything to the T and it would take me at least two hours just to shop for a few groceries because I would read every single container of everything I bought and compare with other items.

Unfortunately once I moved here to Baltimore and started going back to college, I got off track of doing that and I've gained a few pounds back and I know my salt and sugar intake are higher now. I know I need to get back to what I did before. It was not easy but it was healthier for me and to be honest, after the first few months, it got easier and easier to the point where I didn't need to read the packages as much because I already had in my mind what the numbers are from past buying and eating.




yourdarkdesire -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/24/2012 9:53:17 PM)

It does truly get easier with time. I am now at the point where we can eat out almost anywhere, and I can get pretty close. At home, things get measured, and most of the time, I dont need to look at the label. The one thing I have to check almost constantly, is funnily enough, chocolate milk. It totally depends on who makes it as to how many carbs is in it. It can vary between 24-29 for pure chocolate. It doesn't sound like a big difference, but there can be a difference of 0.5 - 1.0 units of insulin.

My BIL, who came into the family twelve years ago, has been type 1 since he was a teenager. I have never seen him look at a label, because he just knows.



kalikshama -> RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our children's health? (12/25/2012 6:33:35 AM)

quote:

I have a challenge for each and everyone of you, whether with me or against me. Take one day and track everything you eat. Measure everything. A sandwich for lunch? Count your bread, your mayo, what ever you put on it. Do it for an entire day, and add up how many carbs you ate. But be fair. Eat as you would for a typical day. Do you drink three cans of pepsi a day? A beer with dinner? Count it. And I will guarantee that my beautiful nine year old who live with a chronic life threatening disease every single day, eats better than the majority of you. Measure it. Weigh it. Count it. Its not so easy, is it.


I did this for 6 months using myfitnesspal, which tracks and totals the carbs. It wasn't hard. I lost over 30 #. I naturally eat way less than my allowed carbs because I don't eat processed food, drink juice or soda.



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