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What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 7:54:34 AM   
hlen5


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http://news.yahoo.com/firefighters-shot-dead-upstate-ny-fire-150346447--abc-news-topstories.html
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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 8:52:42 AM   
Rule


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I read no convincing arguments that someone took a shot at those firefighters. The property was on fire. Maybe some bullets were ignited by the fire and wreaked havoc? I guess it is up to a police investigation to determine what exactly occurred.

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 9:11:55 AM   
Aswad


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Stray bullets is possible. It's why we mandate that bullets be stored in a safe here in Norway. Keeps them from cooking off and shooting firefighters. That has happened in the past, as far as I know.

It's also possible someone did take a shot at them, of course. Guess we'll see when the forensics folks have a look.

ETA: Had a second look, and it seems police are saying there was a gunman, so this'll be interesting to see how it plays out and what the reasons were.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


< Message edited by Aswad -- 12/24/2012 9:20:37 AM >


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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 9:21:06 AM   
Lucylastic


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The shooter was found dead after a short persuit with cops according to Pickering. It was not immediately clear if the gunshot was self-inflicted. The first Webster police officer who arrived on the scene exchanged gunfire with the shooter.
"It appears to be a trap that was set for responders," Pickering said in a late morning press conference


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/24/firefighter-shot-at-scene-blaze-in-western-ny-2-homes-burning-as-police-search/#ixzz2FzV9SdxC

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 9:44:21 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Stray bullets is possible. It's why we mandate that bullets be stored in a safe here in Norway. Keeps them from cooking off and shooting firefighters. That has happened in the past, as far as I know.

Unlikely. Generally, the only danger of rounds cooking off is if they are in the chamber or cylinder of a firearm at the time. Without being constrained, the bullet and case will separate under fairly low pressure and not fire off wildly like you might have seen in the movies.

< Message edited by stef -- 12/24/2012 9:47:39 AM >


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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 10:07:38 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I read no convincing arguments that someone took a shot at those firefighters. The property was on fire. Maybe some bullets were ignited by the fire and wreaked havoc? I guess it is up to a police investigation to determine what exactly occurred.



You have repeatedly shown you wouldnt know a convincing argument if it bit you on the arse.

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 10:10:29 AM   
Politesub53


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Hlen, its bad enough these brave guys have to put out fires often caused by other humans. Let alone some nutter murdering two innocents and injuring two more.

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 12:08:31 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Hlen, its bad enough these brave guys have to put out fires often caused by other humans. Let alone some nutter murdering two innocents and injuring two more.


IF this guy deliberately set the fires to lure Fire Fighters to shoot at, then death by cop was E N T I R E L Y too good for him.

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 12:24:55 PM   
Politesub53


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Seems that way from reports. It also seems he served 17 years for killing his grandmother.

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 12:51:34 PM   
Fellow


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The incident can not go to waste. From the article: ""I know many people are going to be asking if they were assault rifles," Pickering said.....".
Obviously, GUNS killed the firefighters. What is "assault rifle" anyway, I imagine airgun could be used as an assault weapon.

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 3:52:31 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
You have repeatedly shown you wouldnt know a convincing argument if it bit you on the arse.

There are no bite marks in my arse.


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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 7:41:37 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I read no convincing arguments that someone took a shot at those firefighters. The property was on fire. Maybe some bullets were ignited by the fire and wreaked havoc? I guess it is up to a police investigation to determine what exactly occurred.


Unlike the movies, bullets don't "go off" in a fire, they fizzle, pop, but the bullet drops from the cartridge.


< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 12/24/2012 7:42:44 PM >


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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 7:47:39 PM   
Rule


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I stand corrected. That makes sense.

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Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 7:49:10 PM   
Powergamz1


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Most of the bullets stay in the fire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAK2dDQ-S4Q

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/24/2012 7:57:03 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Unlike the movies, bullets don't "go off" in a fire, they fizzle, pop, but the bullet drops from the cartridge.

Doubtless you should inform these guys of this as soon as possible.

K.

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/25/2012 7:05:31 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Unlikely. Generally, the only danger of rounds cooking off is if they are in the chamber or cylinder of a firearm at the time. Without being constrained, the bullet and case will separate under fairly low pressure and not fire off wildly like you might have seen in the movies.


The casings, having less mass, can be expelled with enough force to compromise the protection of the suits worn by nearby firefighters.

But, no, it won't be anything like the movies.

ETA: I stand corrected, K.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


< Message edited by Aswad -- 12/25/2012 7:09:18 PM >


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"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/25/2012 7:35:36 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

I read no convincing arguments that someone took a shot at those firefighters. The property was on fire. Maybe some bullets were ignited by the fire and wreaked havoc? I guess it is up to a police investigation to determine what exactly occurred.


Don't you find cooking off rounds just a little bit unrealistic when the first 5 people to resopnd all were hit?

Butch

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/25/2012 7:49:48 PM   
tazzygirl


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WEBSTER, N.Y. — On Monday morning when darkness was still raw, William Spengler Jr. armed himself with a rifle, a revolver and a shotgun. He had killed before. Harboring a deep-seated hatred of his sister, who lived with him, and a desire to harm his neighbors on a beachfront strip off Lake Ontario, Mr. Spengler composed a rough, typewritten plan that foretold of the destruction to come.

“I still have to get ready to see how much of the neighborhood I can burn down and do what I like doing best — killing people,” Mr. Spengler, 62, wrote, in a note the police recovered.

It had been 32 years since he beat his grandmother to death with a hammer in the Lake Road house next to his.

As Christmas Eve dawned in this suburb of Rochester, local authorities say, Mr. Spengler set fire to a car, as a trap. When an engine company came roaring down the street, he started shooting at the first responders, most likely from his Bushmaster .223-caliber rifle. It was the same type of semiautomatic weapon used in the school shooting 10 days earlier in Newtown, Conn.

“He was equipped to go to war to kill innocent people,” the Webster police chief, Gerald L. Pickering, said of Mr. Spengler.

The authorities say Mr. Spengler fired shots that killed two volunteer firefighters from long range and seriously wounded two others, and set a “raging inferno.” The police found him dead on a berm about five hours after the siege started, with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.

On Tuesday, the authorities added another likely victim: Cheryl Spengler, 67, the gunman’s sister. Chief Pickering said “human remains” were found at the shooter’s house, 191 Lake Road, that they believed were of Ms. Spengler. The Monroe County medical examiner’s office did not return requests for comment on the identification of the remains or the cause of death.

Mr. Spengler’s note, Chief Pickering said, contained no motive, just ramblings, and spoke only to a murderous intent. He said he was not at liberty to disclose it in full because of the investigation.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/nyregion/gunman-who-shot-firefighters-left-chilling-note.html?_r=0



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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/28/2012 4:19:49 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

UPDATE 1-Woman charged with buying guns for NY firemen killer

Dec 28 (Reuters) - A 24-year-old Rochester, New York-area
woman illegally supplied two of the firearms used in the
Christmas Eve sniper deaths of two volunteer firefighters who
were responding to a deliberately set house fire, law
enforcement officials said Friday.

U.S. Attorney William Hochul said Dawn Nguyen of Greece, New
York, acted as a so-called "straw purchaser" for the two long
guns used by William Spengler in the pre-dawn attack on Dec. 24.
Spengler, a 62-year-old ex-convict who was forbidden to own
guns, also had a handgun in his possession, a Smith & Wesson .38
caliber revolver.


source

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RE: What Is This World Coming To? - 12/28/2012 4:34:46 PM   
tazzygirl


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Then should she be charged with the same crime?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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