Ligers.

Ligers. (Full Version)

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ARIES83 -> Ligers. (1/5/2013 2:18:16 PM)
Youtube

needlesandpins -> RE: Ligers. (1/5/2013 3:11:42 PM)
i have mixed feelings about that clip. on one hand i think they are doing a great thing for awareness. on the other i think some of those animals are too fat, that i'm not sure the breeds should be mix bred, and concern that they are treated as glorified pets instead of wild animals. tigers are endangered, so why prat about breeding viable females with lions when you could be helping to save the tiger. alot going on there for me. needles

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Ligers. (1/5/2013 5:39:18 PM)
They are beautiful! I am so going to try to take a trip to Myrtle Beach this summer to see that place.

jlf1961 -> RE: Ligers. (1/5/2013 7:21:52 PM)
Ligers do not exist in the wild, tigers and asian lions are natural enemies and would probably kill each other than have sex.

littlewonder -> RE: Ligers. (1/7/2013 2:22:19 AM)
There was a documentary on Nat Geo one time about mixed breeding. According to that documentary, Ligers end up having all kinds of health issues and actually do not usually live long lives. I think this is true of most mixed breeding and why I feel it's a bad thing to do. We see this all the time with cats and dogs as well because they want to create new and unique animals despite the known health problems that happen because of it. I think it's cruel to offspring.

ARIES83 -> RE: Ligers. (1/7/2013 3:23:35 AM)
LW, While domesticated dogs and cats are only different breeds of their respective species and Ligers are a mix of different species of the same genus, it's not quite the same but I get what your saying, and there has been atleast one Liger that I know of born that wasn't particularly healthy but did if I'm not mistaken live to adulthood. Also I think you and probably a lot of people have a misconception that mixed breading is not right or something... It can be but more often than not, can also be beneficial. Here are couple of relevant links from Wiki that are really informative, for those interested. Heterosis, Wiki. Outcrossing, Wiki. I have some food for thought on what you said about mixed breed cats and dogs LW, If most mixed breading is bad, and unfair to the offspring, results in health problems like you are thinking it does, then what's your position on inter-racial human couples? I'm not pointing that out to be controversial, Africans, Asians, islanders, Mediterranean, Germanic... They are pretty much all distinct breeds of human, think about it. Is it just me, or are most mixed race people pretty attractive?[:D] Mixed race celebs! -Aries PS, Needles, There is a lot of potential for projects like this to breath new life into populations of animals with dwindling genetic diversity, like the Tiger and many other endangered species. that's atleast a one good point isn't it?

needlesandpins -> RE: Ligers. (1/7/2013 3:38:37 AM)
Aries, the point is that we are humans, all the same except for colour. other animals that we manipulate are for our own benefit as pets....and often the huge detriment of said resulting stock. lions and tigers, as you say, are a different species of the same genus....ones that do not meet and mate naturally in the wild. just as cheaters don't mate with lions. infact lions will activey kill cheaters. large cats are not pets. cross breeding then is just not right for your own gratification when the resulting young are likely to lead poor lives. those animals were hugely over weight which will put even more stress on joints and organs. like i said, tigers are an endangered species so why on earth would you prat about crossing them for your own gratification instead of being responsible and helping save the species. they are being treated far too much like pets instead of wild, and potentially dangerous animals. it could only be the fact that they are over fed that keeps them from attacking each other, and the people around them. needles

littlewonder -> RE: Ligers. (1/7/2013 3:52:17 AM)
well being that my brother is married to a black woman and I have nieces and nephews now who are both black and bi-racial with no health issues whatsoever, I'd say I'm fine with it. Humans are a different story. As for the rest of what I think, just read needles comment above mine.

ARIES83 -> RE: Ligers. (1/8/2013 1:00:11 AM)
LW, Why do you think humans are so different? we're all animals.[:-] Needles, I agree big cats aren't toys but I haven't seen any real information about Ligers being inherently unhealthy, I think the guys in the vid probably were a little overweight, I'd say they are pampered a bit, and yes I could picture one reason for the generous feeding being to keep the chance for aggression down. I don't think I have the same qualms as you and LW, but it doesn't matter. I can say that if there were somewhere with Ligers around here, I would probably visit just to see them, and if I was willing to get of my lazy ass to go, a whole lot of other people would aswell. Like the vid said, that place has a lot of good stuff going on for a lot of different endangered species. While I don't wanna sound presumptuous, I'd be willing to bet the people who work there have done heaps more for conservation than all of us combined, so I'm not willing to criticise their methods. The Ligers are a big draw card. JAS, If you go remember to post the photos!! -Aries

littlewonder -> RE: Ligers. (1/8/2013 3:42:23 AM)
Here are some links for information on interbreeding species and why I feel it's inhumane. Why put both the mother and the offspring through that kind of pain and shortened lifespan just for the purpose of entertainment? Plus by interbreeding it can lead to extinction of a species. Interbreeding threatens rare species Pros and cons of interbreeding Birth of Baby Liger Sparks Controversy Inbreeding makes pedigree cats diseased and deformed, animal welfare groups warn And as for humans, if we were to interbreed with a different species, we would end up with the same issues as well. Thankfully it's illegal right now to do this little experiment. We already know the effects of inbreeding with other humans who are closely related to us and it's not anything healthy or positive.

ARIES83 -> RE: Ligers. (1/8/2013 4:31:12 AM)
LW, I think your qualms and a bit of a mixup are stopping you from looking at it objectively. Theres a fair bit to it but here are a few snippets from those articles: 1st link, "In one recent case, they actually chose to interbreed the Florida panther with a closely-related "cousin" species, the Texas cougar, in order to save it. By the 1980s, Florida's panther populations had dropped to such low numbers that inbreeding was causing serious birth defects—and driving the animal toward extinction. USFWS brought in Texas cougars to widen the gene pool. Panthers are now birthing healthy fertile cubs and numbers are growing." 2nd link, "Inbreeding is the mating together of closely related dogs, for example mother/son, father/daughter and sibling/sibling matings. For breeders, it is a useful way of fixing traits in a breed—the pedigrees of some exhibition dogs show that many of their forebears are closely related." [ Inbreeding is the opposite of outcrossing. Inbreading leads to the poor health and defects, outcrossing improves and refreshes the gene-pool leading to better health and fewer defects. -Aries] "Zoos engaged in captive breeding programs are aware of this need to outcross their own stock to animals from other collections. Captive populations are at risk from inbreeding since relatively few mates are available to the animals, hence zoos must borrow animals from each other in order to maintain the genetic diversity of offspring." The 3rd link has a bit of incorrect info, I'd look for a more factual source. And the fourth is about inbreading again, that's the opposite of outcrossing which is what the mixed breeds are. Do you think you could be mixing up inbreeding with mixed-breeds? -Aries

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