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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Actually does it really matter what someone does or does not believe.

There is the old saying, "there are no atheists in fox holes."

Sooner or later you have to believe in something.

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Many kudos for some thoughtful scenarios, DC.

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I favor free thinker myself

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A major criticism of the term 'Brights' is that it suggests an air of mental superiority.

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The Wiki article on Atheism quotes Sam Harris [one of the New Atheists] in part:

"In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs."

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There are a number of choices: "atheist, antitheist, humanist (specifically secular humanist), freethinker, Objectivist, irreligionist, naturalist, materialist or physicalist, agnostic, ignostic, skeptic, apatheist, or even naturalistic pantheist, panendeist" They all seem to be subject to some negative connotation because they reject Belief in the Supernatural, which is the majority view.

Richard Dawkins [dean of the New Atheists] thinks we need a catchy term similar to 'gay' which is "succinct, positive, uplifting," and liberating.

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I doubt the 'community' of nonbelievers will ever agree because they value their liberated thought too dearly to give a damn about labels.

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Many regards . . . .

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As for one of the lists posted:

<various points from DC and elaborations from Dave>

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- And my personal favorite: Marxism is "really" a religion (a view that might have startled Marx), so the crimes of Stalin, Mao et al. don't really reflect atheism.
Funny, I've never heard this one in all my years on non-belief.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

-- And my personal favorite: Marxism is "really" a religion... Funny, I've never heard this one

Karl Marx: Communist as Religious Eschatologist

K.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Actually does it really matter what someone does or does not believe.

There is the old saying, "there are no atheists in fox holes."

Sooner or later you have to believe in something.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice
The fervor and fury with which you've rallied round and amplified each bullet point (save the last, which I'll get to in a minute) only underscores my sense that they serve as a sort of atheistic dogma.

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- And my personal favorite: Marxism is "really" a religion (a view that might have startled Marx), so the crimes of Stalin, Mao et al. don't really reflect atheism.
Funny, I've never heard this one in all my years on non-belief.

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice
The fervor and fury with which you've rallied round and amplified each bullet point (save the last, which I'll get to in a minute) only underscores my sense that they serve as a sort of atheistic dogma.

Or that he's pretty pissed off. I've got to tell you, catching up on the thread this morning I'm seeing some red myself.

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- And my personal favorite: Marxism is "really" a religion (a view that might have startled Marx), so the crimes of Stalin, Mao et al. don't really reflect atheism.
Funny, I've never heard this one in all my years on non-belief.

I agree that the famous Communist regimes were not pushing religions (at least not in the usual sense of the word) however they were strongly pushing particular ideologies which the atheists that this propaganda is getting used on commonly don't share.

It would be like me associating you with Hitler because you both don't believe in unicorns.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

Some places where we Atheists feel a bit oppressed:

Laws based on religion or religious views:
Abortion rights restrictions - MY god says it's wrong - so that applies to EVERYONE!
Marriage equality restrictions - see above
Tax-payer funding of "faith-based initiatives" - do I really need to explain this?
Creationism in public schools - we have enough problems with education in this country without teaching our kids this sort of BS
Tax-payer funding of religious displays - if the anti-abortion types can whine "I don't want MY tax dollars paying for abortions" then I certainly don't want MY tax dollars paying for a nativity scene (or a useless war, but that's a different discussion)

As for one of the lists posted:
A few examples from over the years:

-- Religious people are stupid/weak/delusional (This is sometimes phrased more gently as "Some people [read: the poor dears] need religion.")
Stupid: Examine, for a moment, your thoughts/beliefs about your god. All powerful? Merciful? Everywhere at all times? Then please explain Newtown, CT. Why didn't your god prevent that from happening?
Weak: Phrases like "god showed me the way" and "I was lost without god". Really? So your god literally said to you: Do this, don't do that, make a left at the next light, etc... Are you not capable of making such decisions for yourself?
Delusional: See "Stupid" As an adult, do you really believe in an invisible man who knows all, sees all, can do anything anywhere and at any time? I'd like to introduce you to my friends: Santa Clause and Superman.

-- Religion has been a largely, even totally, negative force in human history and culture.
Let's see... The Crusades is a personal favorite; Jihad is another; The Inquisition; The Salem Witch Trials; The Conquistadors genocide in South America, Slavery in America, The genocide of the Native American population; The pedophile Priest scandal that goes all the way to the Pope; the Vatican's association with the Nazis during WW II and their looking the other way over the Halocaust; the denial of science and the imprisonment of scientists

-- Religion and science are completely incompatible.
Does the sun still orbit around the Earth and does the moon still give off its own light? Evolution is scientific fact, Creationism is a fairy tale.

-- Religious people are moral only because they fear hell.
Accept Jesus as your personal or you'll burn in hell. Pretty much says it all right there.

-- Religious people burn to tell others how to live.
Billy Graham, Tim Wildmon, Orel Roberts, Fred Phelps, Mike Huckabee, etc, etc, etc... I get a knock on my door every few weeks from the Jehovah's Witnesses. At least they are polite.

-- Religions prey on children.
Indoctrination into any culture, mindset, belief is most effective on the young. And then there's the whole pedophile priest thing... And the ritualistic genital mutilation of both boys and girls. And that whole thing in Ireland with the nuns.

-- Religious texts must be taken literally.
Only when it suits the person: Homosexuality is a sin but working on Sunday is OK. It's always nice to pick and choose what parts of the rule book you wish to play by.

-- Any member of a religion must agree entirely with every page of its scriptures and every syllable in its creeds.
Well, the leaders would like it that way but no 2 people will ever agree on everything.

-- And my personal favorite: Marxism is "really" a religion (a view that might have startled Marx), so the crimes of Stalin, Mao et al. don't really reflect atheism.
Funny, I've never heard this one in all my years on non-belief. More correctly, these mass murderers did not kill because they did not believe in a god. They killed to obtain and maintain their power. No one has ever said "I don't believe no god, therefore I will kill a bunch of people".

And finally: "There are no Atheists in foxholes". Aside from some very public photos of US troops stating otherwise, I put it to you that EVERYONE in a foxhole is an Atheist. Because if you truly believed that your god would protect you, you would not need the protection of a foxhole.

~Dave

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ORIGINAL: cordeliasub
What pisses me off is when someone who has never even spoken with me decides I am barely capable of breathing with my mouth closed because they do not understand what I believe.

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I've got to tell you, catching up on the thread this morning I'm seeing some red myself.

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I agree that the famous Communist regimes were not pushing religions (at least not in the usual sense of the word) however they were strongly pushing particular ideologies which the atheists that this propaganda is getting used on commonly don't share.

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It would be like me associating you with Hitler because you both don't believe in unicorns.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I hate to tell you guys this, but the sun and universe revolve around me.

-Posted by JLF1961' dog Princess, Queen of the Universe

So you say, but my disbelief in the existence of typing canines remains unshaken.

K.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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I've got to tell you, catching up on the thread this morning I'm seeing some red myself.

If something I said is making you mad, you know how to post a reply. You're also welcome to PM me.

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ORIGINAL: Louve00
The lawyer pompously said "We are aware of no such holiday for atheists, just when might that be, your honor?"

The judge said "Well it comes every year on exactly the same date-- April 1st!"

"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
Psalm 14:1, Psalm 53:1

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Now I suppose I could conclude from the name calling that some Christians are "pugnacious" or (heck I can't be bothered to look them up. Fill in some of the smears you were using for atheists)

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So Christians if you keep stumbling across angry atheists you should perhaps stop and ask yourselves: "Am I being a bit of a dick?"