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RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:04:24 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
~FR
Its more than just a piece of paper and benefits. Its about being able to talk for your loved one when they cant talk for themselves... legally. Its about being able to make decisions for each other.. and with each other... legally. Its about making sure wishes are respected... and typically its the partner who knows better than the family, yet the law doesnt recognize that fact if the family is filled with idiots and homophobes who want to argue that point.


Those are all civil benefits, tazzy. The right to visit a loved one in the hospital when it's "family only" is another benefit. Not all benefits are monetary in nature.



No, those are legal benefits. Benefits afforded to straight couples with that little piece of paper

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:06:38 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
What DOMA does is codify a segment of the population as "less than".
As not being eligible for marriage by dint of their preference.
By definition that can not,in our society,be constitutional .
We have long ago chosen equality under the law as our benchmark....we can not now in the post civil rights era fashion laws that as intent are meant to create a "less than"class.
It is as plain as the nose on your face and only someone with a bias or a prejudice can claim not to see that.


So, they just want to be able to be able to say they are married to someone of the same sex? That's it? Please tell me there's more to it than just that.

We agree it's unConstitutional. How is it going to be stricken from the books if it's not rule unConstitutional by the SCOTUS?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:10:55 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, they just want to be able to be able to say they are married to someone of the same sex? That's it? Please tell me there's more to it than just that.

Why does there need to be any more to it than that?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:13:49 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, they just want to be able to be able to say they are married to someone of the same sex? That's it? Please tell me there's more to it than just that.

Why does there need to be any more to it than that?


Are you saying there isn't anything more to it than that? There is more to it than that. Not only do they want the right to marry whomever they want, regardless of gender (provided there is consent), and they want all the civil benefits that go along with that. Without the civil benefits, what does being married do? Nothing outside of a church setting.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:14:49 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Look the law prevented a man from marrying his Ferrari.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:17:28 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, they just want to be able to be able to say they are married to someone of the same sex? That's it? Please tell me there's more to it than just that.

Why does there need to be any more to it than that?


Are you saying there isn't anything more to it than that? There is more to it than that. Not only do they want the right to marry whomever they want, regardless of gender (provided there is consent), and they want all the civil benefits that go along with that. Without the civil benefits, what does being married do? Nothing outside of a church setting.

There's a basic point that you're failing to grasp here: the other civil benefits all come with the legally recognised marriage. That's part of the package, rather than a separate deal, as you're arguing.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:42:00 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, they just want to be able to be able to say they are married to someone of the same sex? That's it? Please tell me there's more to it than just that.

Why does there need to be any more to it than that?

Are you saying there isn't anything more to it than that? There is more to it than that. Not only do they want the right to marry whomever they want, regardless of gender (provided there is consent), and they want all the civil benefits that go along with that. Without the civil benefits, what does being married do? Nothing outside of a church setting.

There's a basic point that you're failing to grasp here: the other civil benefits all come with the legally recognised marriage. That's part of the package, rather than a separate deal, as you're arguing.


Nope. I'm not missing it. I'm bringing them specifically. Maybe I should rephrase my question to them thus: "If you had the choice between getting married but not having any of the civil benefits, or not being able to get married (and, thus, still not getting the benefits), which would you take?" Maybe that would be more enlightening to them.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:45:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Nope. I'm not missing it. I'm bringing them specifically. Maybe I should rephrase my question to them thus: "If you had the choice between getting married but not having any of the civil benefits, or not being able to get married (and, thus, still not getting the benefits), which would you take?" Maybe that would be more enlightening to them.


And that creates the mess we have today.

The federal law had no business granting special privileges to a religious ceremony.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:50:56 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Maybe I should rephrase my question to them thus: "If you had the choice between getting married but not having any of the civil benefits, or not being able to get married (and, thus, still not getting the benefits), which would you take?" Maybe that would be more enlightening to them.

Maybe you should have: I'd assumed that you were discussing the issue as is, rather than a 'what if" version that's abstracted from reality.


_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:51:24 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

Nope. I'm not missing it. I'm bringing them specifically. Maybe I should rephrase my question to them thus: "If you had the choice between getting married but not having any of the civil benefits, or not being able to get married (and, thus, still not getting the benefits), which would you take?" Maybe that would be more enlightening to them.

And that creates the mess we have today.
The federal law had no business granting special privileges to a religious ceremony.


The Federal Government had, has, and won't ever have (without Amendments) business granting special privileges to a religious ceremony, Corporation, or other non-nationally relevant "thing."

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 3:59:28 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, they just want to be able to be able to say they are married to someone of the same sex? That's it? Please tell me there's more to it than just that.

Why does there need to be any more to it than that?

Exactly.
Were you a member of the class in question this would be clear to you.
Being thought of as "less than" is an injustice in and of itself.
It's long past time where we all acknowledge that,no ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 4:03:21 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, they just want to be able to be able to say they are married to someone of the same sex? That's it? Please tell me there's more to it than just that.

Why does there need to be any more to it than that?


Are you saying there isn't anything more to it than that? There is more to it than that. Not only do they want the right to marry whomever they want, regardless of gender (provided there is consent), and they want all the civil benefits that go along with that. Without the civil benefits, what does being married do? Nothing outside of a church setting.


Why do you think straight couples want to get married then? Maybe we should just do away with it all together since all anyone wants is the benefits.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 4:05:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I have often said people should have a civil ceremony for the legal.. and a religious marriage if they so desire.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 4:11:27 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		All well and good Tazzy...as long as all people,no matter their orientation can choose to do both ,or neither,or one or the other....irrespective of anything other than their preference

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 5:11:00 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, they just want to be able to be able to say they are married to someone of the same sex? That's it? Please tell me there's more to it than just that.

Why does there need to be any more to it than that?

Are you saying there isn't anything more to it than that? There is more to it than that. Not only do they want the right to marry whomever they want, regardless of gender (provided there is consent), and they want all the civil benefits that go along with that. Without the civil benefits, what does being married do? Nothing outside of a church setting.

Why do you think straight couples want to get married then? Maybe we should just do away with it all together since all anyone wants is the benefits.


There are religious connotations with the institution of marriage. Tazzy pointed out, the Federal Government had "no business granting special privileges to a religious ceremony."

Now, if you were to argue that we should take the Civil benefits away from hetero-marriages, that would make it all equal again.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 5:59:38 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Look, I want the federal government to make it legal for certain native American wife getting practices be practiced for all people of at least 1/4 native blood and higher.

This would mean it would be legal to purchase a bride in exchange for horses.

Or

It would be legal to pull a raid, on horse back, and steal wives from other tribes and white folks.

This makes as much sense as the DOMA idea.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 6:08:44 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Look, I want the federal government to make it legal for certain native American wife getting practices be practiced for all people of at least 1/4 native blood and higher.

This would mean it would be legal to purchase a bride in exchange for horses.


I have a few friends who would consider that an equitable trade. No returns tho.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/17/2013 7:11:06 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Look, I want the federal government to make it legal for certain native American wife getting practices be practiced for all people of at least 1/4 native blood and higher.
This would mean it would be legal to purchase a bride in exchange for horses.

I have a few friends who would consider that an equitable trade. No returns tho.


Wouldn't that be equinable?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/18/2013 6:42:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		City skins would have to be traded in trojans probably.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Republican Stupidity or Republican Graft?? - 1/18/2013 4:47:17 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have often said people should have a civil ceremony for the legal.. and a religious marriage if they so desire.


That's not a bad idea along with slvemikes additions.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
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