RE: Does this matter to anyone? (Full Version)

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TheLilSquaw -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 12:40:48 PM)

I was introduced to Whole Foods in May of 2012.
I love it and the one near me is small compared to others.

The chain is very environmentally conscious.
They carry a large variety of organic foods, gluten free foods, and wild sea food.






PeonForHer -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 12:52:16 PM)

Not the ultra-libertarian sort - e.g. Robert Nozick in Anarchy, State and Utopia. You still get some of those around these days.



Moonhead -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 1:09:15 PM)

Those idiots are about the only flavour who don't want any structure at all, though. Weird how it's only rightist anarchists who are up for that, rather than the leftist anarchists.
(Mind you, I've always found the notion that libertarians are just right leaning anarchists a bit fishy, myself: like a lot of oversimplifications for the hard of thinking, it's nonsense when you take the trouble to examine it...)



DomYngBlk -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 1:28:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

This grocer seems to think Obamacare is Fascist. Does this change anyone's ideas about the store?

Link#1
Link#2
Link#3


Funny part is that he thinks anyone cares about what he says. He has a right to his opinion. He's wrong but he has a right to it.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 2:35:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
This grocer seems to think Obamacare is Fascist. Does this change anyone's ideas about the store?
Link#1
Link#2
Link#3

Funny part is that he thinks anyone cares about what he says. He has a right to his opinion. He's wrong but he has a right to it.


Really? There have been some that have responded that their impressions of him and the store have changed because of this. That means there are people that care what he says. NPR asked him the question in an interview. I don't know what the interview was about, or if it was about these criticisms. Either way, apparently NPR thought enough of their listeners would care about what he says to have him on.

Care to expound on how he's wrong?



jlf1961 -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 2:47:23 PM)

Yeah some people changed their opinion of the store chain and the owner, changing their shopping habits.

If everyone did the same with every store chain owner who said something they did not agree with, everyone including wal mart would go out of business.

My point is that he has the right to state his opinion. I am a democrat and have problems with Obamacare. I do not agree with the public mandate, and its penalties, because there is no provision to force insurance companies to reduce premiums.

And the insurance pools are not going to change the fact that to remain profitable in light of rising medical costs, they are going to have to charge high premiums.

So people forced to buy health insurance are going to get a royal screwing.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 2:58:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Yeah some people changed their opinion of the store chain and the owner, changing their shopping habits.
If everyone did the same with every store chain owner who said something they did not agree with, everyone including wal mart would go out of business.
My point is that he has the right to state his opinion. I am a democrat and have problems with Obamacare. I do not agree with the public mandate, and its penalties, because there is no provision to force insurance companies to reduce premiums.
And the insurance pools are not going to change the fact that to remain profitable in light of rising medical costs, they are going to have to charge high premiums.
So people forced to buy health insurance are going to get a royal screwing.


The 80/20 rule forces insurance companies to spend at least 80% of their members premiums for care, else there will have to be a rebate. That will limit premium increases to only rise so as to keep to the 80/20 rule. As for the actual cost of the care the premiums are going to buy, however...



jlf1961 -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 3:01:03 PM)

I know, but I still think that unless something is done to lower the cost of care, the insurance premiums are going to be too high for lower middle class incomes and below to afford them without giving up another necessity.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 3:10:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
I know, but I still think that unless something is done to lower the cost of care, the insurance premiums are going to be too high for lower middle class incomes and below to afford them without giving up another necessity.


Oh, don't be silly. Tazzy says it will. Isn't that enough for you?

It will end up being a road to even higher taxes on the rich to pay for ever-increasing premium subsidization. And, I have been asking about this since before I ever started looking for kink sites.



jlf1961 -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 3:13:26 PM)

Tazzy, while I admire her passion, is an optimist, I however am a pessimist and it has been my experience that my pessimism has been right more often than not.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 3:34:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Tazzy, while I admire her passion, is an optimist, I however am a pessimist and it has been my experience that my pessimism has been right more often than not.


In true "across the aisle" bipartisanship, I agree with everything you just stated, with one caveat: she is only optimistic when she agrees with the legislation.



EsotericLady -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 3:35:41 PM)

I couldn't agree with you more, Rule. And I live in the States.
There are sooooo many things the general public doesn't't know about the health care profession and health insurance companies.

For instance:

You are billed NOT just according to what services your physician performs, but according to what insurance provider you have. The higher the remittance from the insurance provider you have, the higher your bill will be.
Consequently, you may very well be getting charged higher for the EXACT SAME OFFICE VISIT as the guy down the hall. And that means you are also paying a higher copay at the checkout.
(How do I know this? My physician's credit department informed me.)

The reason you find the visits to your doctor's office increasing all the time, is not just due to his increase in utility costs and year-end employee bonuses. The higher the doctor's push their charges, the sooner the insurance companies will change the amounts they will "allow" and the higher your copays and insurance premiums go up.
(How do I know this? It came straight from the mouth of the customer service department at my insurance provider.)

Ever wonder how the doctor's choose what meds to subscribe for you? Ever wonder just how much the insurance providers are "LOOSING" so that they MUST increase your premiums? Ever wonder just who is the MAJOR health insurance provider in the U.S.? Ever look at the financial statement of a health insurance provider. Ahhhh....it makes such INTERESTING reading! :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule


Now my physician does not work for me, but for my health insurance company: they pay him. See the problem?

What bothers me particularly is that my money is being used to finance the detrioriation of the health of many people by causing them to get iatrogenic diseases.






EsotericLady -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 3:38:06 PM)

I've never heard of Whole Foods before this. There aren't any in my area.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

I have never been much of a Whole Foods shopper but it doesn't change my opinion of Whole Foods. I don't think he's too far off the mark and he and Hilary are cut from the same cloth.




thishereboi -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 3:45:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

This grocer seems to think Obamacare is Fascist. Does this change anyone's ideas about the store?

Link#1
Link#2
Link#3


The fact that he thinks Obamacare is fascist doesn't change my feelings for the store. I think everyone is entitled to an opinion and they don't have to agree with me. Some of the things mentioned in the articles linked would increase the chance I shopped there if I went for an organic diet.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 3:48:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
This grocer seems to think Obamacare is Fascist. Does this change anyone's ideas about the store?
Link#1
Link#2
Link#3

The fact that he thinks Obamacare is fascist doesn't change my feelings for the store. I think everyone is entitled to an opinion and they don't have to agree with me. Some of the things mentioned in the articles linked would increase the chance I shopped there if I went for an organic diet.


Did your opinion of Chic-Fil-A change with the revelation of the owner's homosexuality beliefs?



thishereboi -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 3:58:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
This grocer seems to think Obamacare is Fascist. Does this change anyone's ideas about the store?
Link#1
Link#2
Link#3

The fact that he thinks Obamacare is fascist doesn't change my feelings for the store. I think everyone is entitled to an opinion and they don't have to agree with me. Some of the things mentioned in the articles linked would increase the chance I shopped there if I went for an organic diet.


Did your opinion of Chic-Fil-A change with the revelation of the owner's homosexuality beliefs?


No, actually it didn't. Now if either one started penelizing their employees because of their beliefs, that would change. But so far I haven't seen that.



Moonhead -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 3:59:49 PM)

But you're fine with giving your money to businesses owned by men who wouldn't piss in your ear if your brain was on fire so long as they don't have a hiring policy that reflects their prejudices?



thishereboi -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 4:06:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

But you're fine with giving your money to businesses owned by men who wouldn't piss in your ear if your brain was on fire so long as they don't have a hiring policy that reflects their prejudices?


If I like what they were selling, then yes. I am not stupid enough to believe that the owner of every store I go into is accepting of gays.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 5:36:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
This grocer seems to think Obamacare is Fascist. Does this change anyone's ideas about the store?
Link#1
Link#2
Link#3

The fact that he thinks Obamacare is fascist doesn't change my feelings for the store. I think everyone is entitled to an opinion and they don't have to agree with me. Some of the things mentioned in the articles linked would increase the chance I shopped there if I went for an organic diet.

Did your opinion of Chic-Fil-A change with the revelation of the owner's homosexuality beliefs?

No, actually it didn't.


Good. I admit that it didn't change my attitude or dining habits at all, either. I had never, and still haven't gone there to eat. No reason for it other than I just haven't done it.

quote:

Now if either one started penelizing their employees because of their beliefs, that would change. But so far I haven't seen that.


Wholeheartedly agree.



JeffBC -> RE: Does this matter to anyone? (1/17/2013 9:24:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
How is Libertarianism a "hypocritical form of anarchy?"

Any time I have ever run across a "libertarian", what it amounts to is "I think we should legislate as little as possible... so we'll legislate all of my pet peeves then tell everyone else not to legislate theirs" -- hence "hypocritical form of anarchy. Ron Paul comes to mind as a stellar example.

I'm less interested in political ideals and dogma than I am practical implications of decisions made. And no, I didn't even read his reasoning nor do I need to. Unless and until someone explains to me the alternative to "socialized medicine"... one that doesn't involve scenes from mad max.... I don't really need to understand the mumblings of those against it.



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