RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control

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jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:02:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Actually, Assault weapons under the Feinstein bill are not ACTUALLY assault weapons. They are semi automatic rifles built on a military frame. The true definition of Assault Weapon is any select fire weapon that is the basic issue weapon for the military. M16 is an assault weapon AR15 is a semi automatic rifle built on a military rifle frame. Just so you know, there is a fucking big difference between what is sold to civilians and what is sold to the military. The military does not buy semi automatic weapons. I wish the fucking non-service people in the country would learn the fucking difference. I wish the fucking gun nuts would stop lying about this. Assault rifles were developed from the experiences in WWII. They are shorter and lighter rifles that fire a smaller but high velocity cartridge than the roughly .30 caliber hunting rifle rounds fired by battle rifles of the era. The AR-15 was the first of these to be produced and enter service in the west while the AK-47 was the Soviet version. What matters is the size of the weapon and the cartridge meant for nothing but killing people. There have been full selective fire versions of the AR-15 and there have been semi-automatic versions but that doesn't magically change the weapon. An Assault Weapon is the standard issue long arm for military use. They are characterized by having slightly shorter barrels, a select fire switch to allow for semi or full auto fire. Fucking asshat Feinstein used the term to describe a semi automatic weapon built with a military style frame. The M14 is an assault weapon. Weight 9.2 lb (4.1 kg) empty 10.7 lb (5.2 kg) w/ loaded magazine Length 44.3 in (1,126 mm) Barrel length 22 in (559 mm) Cartridge 7.62×51mm NATO (.308 Winchester) Action Gas-operated, rotating bolt Rate of fire 700–750 rounds/min Muzzle velocity 850 m/s (2,800 ft/s) Effective range 460 m (500 yd)[4] 800+ m (875+ yd) (with optics) Feed system 20-round detachable box magazine Sights Aperture rear sight, "barleycorn" front sight M16 Manufacturers Armalite, Colt Manufacturing Length 39.625 inches Weight (without magazine and sling) 6.35 pounds Weight (with loaded 30 round magazine and sling) 7.76 pounds Bore Diameter 5.56mm (.233 inches) Rifling Right-hand twist, 6 grooves, 1 turn in 12 inches Maximum Range 2,653 meters Maximum Effective Range 460 meters Muzzle Velocity 3,250 feet per second Rate of Fire (Cyclic) 800 rounds per minute Rate of Fire (Sustained) 12-15 rounds per minute Rate of Fire (Semiautomatic) 45-65 rounds per minute Rate of Fire (Automatic) 150-200 rounds per minute This is the internationally accepted definition of the term "assault weapon" is sometimes conflated with the term "assault rifle". An assault rifle is a military rifle that utilizes an intermediate-power cartridge, and that generally is capable of full-automatic fire, where multiple rounds are fired continuously when the trigger is pulled one time — that is, a machine gun — or burst capable, where a burst of several rounds is fired when the trigger is pulled one time However sense Furher Feinstein the legal term is listed as a semi automatic weapon that is built on a military frame with various characteristics that for all intents and purposes can be changed after market to make the weapon legal as not being an assault weapon. Just because the fucking bitch is in the senate does not means she knows crap about firearms. By the way, the bitch has a concealed carry permit and the pistol she carries would be banned under her proposed law. Can we say HYPOCRITE?

DomKen -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:08:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Actually, Assault weapons under the Feinstein bill are not ACTUALLY assault weapons. They are semi automatic rifles built on a military frame. The true definition of Assault Weapon is any select fire weapon that is the basic issue weapon for the military. M16 is an assault weapon AR15 is a semi automatic rifle built on a military rifle frame. Just so you know, there is a fucking big difference between what is sold to civilians and what is sold to the military. The military does not buy semi automatic weapons. I wish the fucking non-service people in the country would learn the fucking difference. I wish the fucking gun nuts would stop lying about this. Assault rifles were developed from the experiences in WWII. They are shorter and lighter rifles that fire a smaller but high velocity cartridge than the roughly .30 caliber hunting rifle rounds fired by battle rifles of the era. The AR-15 was the first of these to be produced and enter service in the west while the AK-47 was the Soviet version. What matters is the size of the weapon and the cartridge meant for nothing but killing people. There have been full selective fire versions of the AR-15 and there have been semi-automatic versions but that doesn't magically change the weapon. An Assault Weapon is the standard issue long arm for military use. They are characterized by having slightly shorter barrels, a select fire switch to allow for semi or full auto fire. Fucking asshat Feinstein used the term to describe a semi automatic weapon built with a military style frame. The M14 is an assault weapon. WRONG!!!!!!!! The M14 is a battle rifle. A battle rifle, as anyone who actually knows guns knows, is a military longarm firing a full power cartridge. In reality the terms assault rifle and battle rifle came into existence to distinguish between the characteristics of the M-14 and the AR-15. If you don't know even the most basic facts about the history of military longarms maybe you should stop pontificating on the subject!

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:10:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 It`s not a hunting rifle. The round was meant for killing people. There is no reason a civilian should own one.Same for the AK-47 semi-auto.Almost everyone i know with one knows how to make them full auto. Never seen anyone hunt with either one but I often hear righties gushing about taking on dictatorships and how a Kalashnikov would be their weapon of choice. Let me enlighten you on a few things. the following rounds were designed to kill people, not animals. 7mm 8mm 7.56mm 45/70. 45/90 30cal, 30-0-6, 45, 44, 30-30, .303, .454 All those are hunting calibers now. As for rifles that were designed to kill people. M1, Springfield 30 bolt action, Springfield 30-0-6 bolt action. 7mm Mauser, 8mm Mauser These are common sport rifles now. IN point of fact, the common hunting black powder replicas were originally MILITARY weapons. Just about every pistol larger than the .22 was designed to kill people and were military or police issue. So any weapon or caliber that was design to kill people should be banned? In case you are not able to figure it out, that would be EVERY FUCKING GUN ON THE FUCK*ING MARKET. So, basically you are anti second amendment.

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:12:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Actually, Assault weapons under the Feinstein bill are not ACTUALLY assault weapons. They are semi automatic rifles built on a military frame. The true definition of Assault Weapon is any select fire weapon that is the basic issue weapon for the military. M16 is an assault weapon AR15 is a semi automatic rifle built on a military rifle frame. Just so you know, there is a fucking big difference between what is sold to civilians and what is sold to the military. The military does not buy semi automatic weapons. I wish the fucking non-service people in the country would learn the fucking difference. I wish the fucking gun nuts would stop lying about this. Assault rifles were developed from the experiences in WWII. They are shorter and lighter rifles that fire a smaller but high velocity cartridge than the roughly .30 caliber hunting rifle rounds fired by battle rifles of the era. The AR-15 was the first of these to be produced and enter service in the west while the AK-47 was the Soviet version. What matters is the size of the weapon and the cartridge meant for nothing but killing people. There have been full selective fire versions of the AR-15 and there have been semi-automatic versions but that doesn't magically change the weapon. An Assault Weapon is the standard issue long arm for military use. They are characterized by having slightly shorter barrels, a select fire switch to allow for semi or full auto fire. Fucking asshat Feinstein used the term to describe a semi automatic weapon built with a military style frame. The M14 is an assault weapon. WRONG!!!!!!!! The M14 is a battle rifle. A battle rifle, as anyone who actually knows guns knows, is a military longarm firing a full power cartridge. In reality the terms assault rifle and battle rifle came into existence to distinguish between the characteristics of the M-14 and the AR-15. If you don't know even the most basic facts about the history of military longarms maybe you should stop pontificating on the subject! I was showing them that the M14 does not meet their definition of a assault weapon. The key word they used was "short barrel" For the record I own an M1A the civilian version of the M14, and the M14 is an assault rifle since it has select fire capability, per the international definition of Assault Weapon. Yes in the US Military it was termed a Battle Rifle, but things have changed under the definition. Just like the 8mm bolt action Mauser was listed as a military long arm until 1955/1960 not sure when the definition changed, but it is now a sporting rifle.

DomKen -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:13:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 It`s not a hunting rifle. The round was meant for killing people. There is no reason a civilian should own one.Same for the AK-47 semi-auto.Almost everyone i know with one knows how to make them full auto. Never seen anyone hunt with either one but I often hear righties gushing about taking on dictatorships and how a Kalashnikov would be their weapon of choice. Let me enlighten you on a few things. the following rounds were designed to kill people, not animals. 7mm 8mm 7.56mm 45/70. 45/90 30cal, 30-0-6, 45, 44, 30-30, .303, .454 All those are hunting calibers now. As for rifles that were designed to kill people. M1, Springfield 30 bolt action, Springfield 30-0-6 bolt action. 7mm Mauser, 8mm Mauser These are common sport rifles now. IN point of fact, the common hunting black powder replicas were originally MILITARY weapons. Just about every pistol larger than the .22 was designed to kill people and were military or police issue. So any weapon or caliber that was design to kill people should be banned? In case you are not able to figure it out, that would be EVERY FUCKING GUN ON THE FUCK*ING MARKET. So, basically you are anti second amendment. You just lied. The .30-30 Winchester cartridge was expressly made for the Winchester 1894 hunting rifle and was never meant for military use.

DomKen -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:15:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Actually, Assault weapons under the Feinstein bill are not ACTUALLY assault weapons. They are semi automatic rifles built on a military frame. The true definition of Assault Weapon is any select fire weapon that is the basic issue weapon for the military. M16 is an assault weapon AR15 is a semi automatic rifle built on a military rifle frame. Just so you know, there is a fucking big difference between what is sold to civilians and what is sold to the military. The military does not buy semi automatic weapons. I wish the fucking non-service people in the country would learn the fucking difference. I wish the fucking gun nuts would stop lying about this. Assault rifles were developed from the experiences in WWII. They are shorter and lighter rifles that fire a smaller but high velocity cartridge than the roughly .30 caliber hunting rifle rounds fired by battle rifles of the era. The AR-15 was the first of these to be produced and enter service in the west while the AK-47 was the Soviet version. What matters is the size of the weapon and the cartridge meant for nothing but killing people. There have been full selective fire versions of the AR-15 and there have been semi-automatic versions but that doesn't magically change the weapon. An Assault Weapon is the standard issue long arm for military use. They are characterized by having slightly shorter barrels, a select fire switch to allow for semi or full auto fire. Fucking asshat Feinstein used the term to describe a semi automatic weapon built with a military style frame. The M14 is an assault weapon. WRONG!!!!!!!! The M14 is a battle rifle. A battle rifle, as anyone who actually knows guns knows, is a military longarm firing a full power cartridge. In reality the terms assault rifle and battle rifle came into existence to distinguish between the characteristics of the M-14 and the AR-15. If you don't know even the most basic facts about the history of military longarms maybe you should stop pontificating on the subject! I was showing them that the M14 does not meet their definition of a assault weapon. The key word they used was "short barrel" For the record I own an M1A the civilian version of the M14 You expressly claimed it was an assault rifle it definitely is not. Since you know nothing about firearms, as your claim about .30-30 Winchester cartridges proves maybe you should bow out before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

Kirata -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:18:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The round was meant for killing people. Another member of the Faith Chorus straggles in. Where have you been? The service has already started. Firearms are weapons. They are designed to cause injury. Fatal injury if necessary, but not necessarily. Actually, only one in three people who suffer a gunshot injury end up dying from their wounds. Even multiple head shots are sometimes not fatal. Which isn't to make light of the seriousness of using a weapon, but claims like the one in your post are crap. These calibers aren't even designed to cause maximal injury. K.

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:23:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 It`s not a hunting rifle. The round was meant for killing people. There is no reason a civilian should own one.Same for the AK-47 semi-auto.Almost everyone i know with one knows how to make them full auto. Never seen anyone hunt with either one but I often hear righties gushing about taking on dictatorships and how a Kalashnikov would be their weapon of choice. Let me enlighten you on a few things. the following rounds were designed to kill people, not animals. 7mm 8mm 7.56mm 45/70. 45/90 30cal, 30-0-6, 45, 44, 30-30, .303, .454 All those are hunting calibers now. As for rifles that were designed to kill people. M1, Springfield 30 bolt action, Springfield 30-0-6 bolt action. 7mm Mauser, 8mm Mauser These are common sport rifles now. IN point of fact, the common hunting black powder replicas were originally MILITARY weapons. Just about every pistol larger than the .22 was designed to kill people and were military or police issue. So any weapon or caliber that was design to kill people should be banned? In case you are not able to figure it out, that would be EVERY FUCKING GUN ON THE FUCK*ING MARKET. So, basically you are anti second amendment. You just lied. The .30-30 Winchester cartridge was expressly made for the Winchester 1894 hunting rifle and was never meant for military use. Then the web page I got information was wrong, and I apologize, unlike some people on these boards, (not meaning you) I can admit when I was wrong. And I edited my post to explain my point about assault rifles. The m14 was designated an Battle Rifle when issued, however, under the current definition set by various international agencies, it is now considered an assault weapon. The first assault weapon fielded by the Germans in WW2, would by our standards be a battle rifle, however it is classified as an assault weapon. Technically, the AK 47 was the first assault weapon since it was significantly shorter than the average rifle issued by any other military service at the time the Warsaw pack adopted it. The Warsaw pact Dragunov sniper rifle uses the AK action and is still an exceptional weapon.

lovmuffin -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:26:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 It`s not a hunting rifle. The round was meant for killing people. There is no reason a civilian should own one.Same for the AK-47 semi-auto.Almost everyone i know with one knows how to make them full auto. Never seen anyone hunt with either one but I often hear righties gushing about taking on dictatorships and how a Kalashnikov would be their weapon of choice. I hunt spotted owels with an AK 47.

Ronnie1986 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:28:04 PM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEg1VNfX3o&playnext=1&list=PLD5D3E06C85F48277&feature=results_main

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:30:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 It`s not a hunting rifle. The round was meant for killing people. There is no reason a civilian should own one.Same for the AK-47 semi-auto.Almost everyone i know with one knows how to make them full auto. Never seen anyone hunt with either one but I often hear righties gushing about taking on dictatorships and how a Kalashnikov would be their weapon of choice. I hunt spotted owels with an AK 47. Until I got my new hog gun from Red Jacket, I hunted wild pigs with an AR15. Next to useless with some of the bigger hogs, but for the smaller it was perfect.

kdsub -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:49:32 PM)
Maybe THIS site will explain Butch

Ronnie1986 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 5:56:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Maybe THIS site will explain Butch i hate to break this to you but aside from showing people what they need to make a homemade assault rifle which would still be illegal it really just shows the people trying to mod there semi to an auty they wont be able to lol because there was more to it than they thought when they heard that file shit down line.. and the bottom line is it still has to have a select fire thats not just semi and saftey.. which if youll read what you posted they say the m16 has a third for go auto.. i dont see what you are argueing.. select fire is selecting your rate of fire...

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 6:07:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ronnie1986 quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Maybe THIS site will explain Butch i hate to break this to you but aside from showing people what they need to make a homemade assault rifle which would still be illegal it really just shows the people trying to mod there semi to an auty they wont be able to lol because there was more to it than they thought when they heard that file shit down line.. and the bottom line is it still has to have a select fire thats not just semi and saftey.. which if youll read what you posted they say the m16 has a third for go auto.. i dont see what you are argueing.. select fire is selecting your rate of fire... Actually, if the parts used were made before 1984, you can legally buy them with the proper NFA paperwork. Now for the bad news, you may not own the proper AR style weapon for the conversion. Those, it seems, are hard to come by. However, given the right machine tools in the right kind of machine shop, you can make those parts, but see the second statement above. The specifications for the current generation of AR type weapons for the parts needed to make the conversion have not been made publicly available, per the ATF. At least that is the information I have found. I could be wrong, If so I apologize.

kdsub -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 6:08:48 PM)
I am not arguing...just showing people the differences between the two and why the AR-15 cannot be made fully automatic by the average joe on the street despite all you read on the internet. Butch

kdsub -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 6:10:41 PM)
quote: However, given the right machine tools in the right kind of machine shop, you can make those parts, but see the second statement above. This the point i am making...the average gangbanger on the street cannot do it...nor could I. Butch

jlf1961 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 6:13:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: However, given the right machine tools in the right kind of machine shop, you can make those parts, but see the second statement above. This the point i am making...the average gangbanger on the street cannot do it...nor could I. Butch If you would like to pay me a visit, for a nominal fee, I can take you to a friends machine shop and show you how to do it. Of course if you have a recent generation of the AR, they would be useless. Perhaps you would prefer us to show you how to make a 7mm magnum minigun firing 6000 rounds a minute?

Owner59 -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 6:16:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 It`s not a hunting rifle. The round was meant for killing people. There is no reason a civilian should own one.Same for the AK-47 semi-auto.Almost everyone i know with one knows how to make them full auto. Never seen anyone hunt with either one but I often hear righties gushing about taking on dictatorships and how a Kalashnikov would be their weapon of choice. I hunt spotted owels with an AK 47. And nuts hunt kids with them........just a little mass murder humor there.....[8\|]

kdsub -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 6:17:29 PM)
Nah thanks for the offer...I'd rather stick with my old trusty M14

DomKen -> RE: What do flah suppressors have to do with crime control (1/18/2013 6:21:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I am not arguing...just showing people the differences between the two and why the AR-15 cannot be made fully automatic by the average joe on the street despite all you read on the internet. Butch For most AR-15's you are right but there are some where simply replacing the sear and in some very extreme cases just the safety with a selector switch will do the job. I'd assume all those older AR's are unsafely in the hands of just the sorts who I don't think should have automatic weapons.

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