Learning Curve?

Learning Curve? (Full Version)

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AussieMasterRay -> Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 3:13:18 AM)
Is it advisable or even considered to become a sub in order to fully understand the relationship and true power exchange between a D and their sub?

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 3:44:26 AM)
No. A brain surgeon doesn't need to go under the knife to do his job well. A woman doesn't need to live as a man for a while to understand how to be a good girlfriend to him. If someone is interested in being a sub first, that's fine. But it's a bit of a myth that subbing is the only way to learn how to dom. A dominant person who is submitting just to tick it off the list won't be having the same experience as someone who genuinely craves submission. And the relationship between one dom and sub is different from the relationship between the next couple, so his/her learning wouldn't necessarily be applicable anyway. The way to learn about it is to meet people who are living that way and talk to them, witness how they make it work for them. Then read lots of non-fiction on the subject, browse message boards like this, ask questions and come to your own conclusions on what you think would suit you. Then find someone with broadly similar ideas and try it out, talk about it, adapt it, and try some more.

DarkSteven -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 5:38:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AussieMasterRay Is it advisable or even considered to become a sub in order to fully understand the relationship and true power exchange between a D and their sub? In some circles such as the leather community, that's done. Most of us Doms just want to be Doms, though. Edited to add: Well, I just read your profile. You bill yourself as a switch in your profile, call yourself a Master in your username, and your profile shows that you're just looking for a Domme. You're either a male sub, or perhaps confused.

OsideGirl -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 8:39:23 AM)
The leather community does that. Personally, I think that it's a disservice to pretend to be something you're not.

theRose4U -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 10:17:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: AussieMasterRay Is it advisable or even considered to become a sub in order to fully understand the relationship and true power exchange between a D and their sub? In some circles such as the leather community, that's done. Most of us Doms just want to be Doms, though. Edited to add: Well, I just read your profile. You bill yourself as a switch in your profile, call yourself a Master in your username, and your profile shows that you're just looking for a Domme. You're either a male sub, or perhaps confused. My vote is covering all possible bases

lizi -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 2:25:05 PM)
I have talked to one person who made a good case for being a submissive first before being a Dominant. He believed it was a great experience, and helped him become a better Dom. Seemed to work for him. If it were me, I don't think I'd be interested in switch hitting in order to become closer to my destination. I guess it's all in the person, what they believe in, and who they are.

LaTigresse -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 2:30:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl The leather community does that. Personally, I think that it's a disservice to pretend to be something you're not. This. I could never BE submissive, I can only pretend. I tried. It was a soul sucking experience I never plan on revisiting.

epiphiny43 -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 2:41:11 PM)
In our culture of instant gratification and self-identification as experts and cognoscenti, you are what you want to call yourself. Responsible programs of development start at the basics. The comment on brain surgery is specious, it's remarkably simple to spot MDs who never were patients or learned nothing from the relationships. Being a Physician is far more than knowing where to cut. Ask any nurse about the people with Medical Divinity degrees they work with. German machinists start with a file and some round stock. When they master that tool, evidenced by the square shaft they produced, they move to the next tool. Eventually a competent worker can use every tool in the shop well. Including modern CAD/CAM. Not knowing how to use the tools usually means a college education and engineering degree. These guys are always designing things that can't be built and the machine shop people have to educate them over and over. At the least an ambitious Dominant needs to study and the printed/video material is sadly inadequate. Previous cultures always used apprentice or mentoring relationships where a recognized as competent person oversaw the learning and development of the student. The Post War Leather culture which is the root of our current BDSM practices always followed the same pattern. Nobody said anyone had to like bottoming, but only one who has knows certain things. Seeing the many Twue Doms and instant Masters on the kink web sites or social events and how they practice power exchange, I'm thinking the Leather people had it right. I'm absolutely certain nobody learned to drive a car superbly by granting themself a license. Who gets into an airliner expecting a self-educated pilot? A very few manage great accomplishments with excellent observation and empathy and considerable humility. Many of the rest gained whatever expertise they hold at the expense of excessively trusting subs.

lthrpup -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 3:27:43 PM)
So dominants need knowledge and experience. That doesn't mean they need to get it by submitting.

MAINEiacMISTRESS -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 4:20:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders No. A brain surgeon doesn't need to go under the knife to do his job well. A woman doesn't need to live as a man for a while to understand how to be a good girlfriend to him. If someone is interested in being a sub first, that's fine. But it's a bit of a myth that subbing is the only way to learn how to dom. A dominant person who is submitting just to tick it off the list won't be having the same experience as someone who genuinely craves submission. And the relationship between one dom and sub is different from the relationship between the next couple, so his/her learning wouldn't necessarily be applicable anyway. The way to learn about it is to meet people who are living that way and talk to them, witness how they make it work for them. Then read lots of non-fiction on the subject, browse message boards like this, ask questions and come to your own conclusions on what you think would suit you. Then find someone with broadly similar ideas and try it out, talk about it, adapt it, and try some more. Agreeing wholeheartedly with Athena and expanding on this idea. I like GETTING FEEDBACK from subs to find out how a particular thing/action affects them, what FEELINGS they are experiencing from doing something (or perhaps it has no affect whatsoever and is a waste of time). I find each submissive is different and therefore reacts differently, experiences things in a different way. What one enjoys, another one may totally freak out from and then you have a breakdown in the relationship and perhaps loss of Trust because the Dominant hasn't done their job of reading the sub's reactions. I like to know what's in their heads, and therefore it helps Me plan what direction to go next. Essentially, COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER! This is the best way to learn how to do it "right" when it comes to ANY relationship. --MM

wannapleez -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 4:31:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS Agreeing wholeheartedly with Athena and expanding on this idea. I like GETTING FEEDBACK from subs to find out how a particular thing/action affects them, what FEELINGS they are experiencing from doing something (or perhaps it has no affect whatsoever and is a waste of time). I find each submissive is different and therefore reacts differently, experiences things in a different way. What one enjoys, another one may totally freak out from and then you have a breakdown in the relationship and perhaps loss of Trust because the Dominant hasn't done their job of reading the sub's reactions. I like to know what's in their heads, and therefore it helps Me plan what direction to go next. Essentially, COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER! This is the best way to learn how to do it "right" when it comes to ANY relationship. --MM Communication in a relationship ?!?! That's unheard of!!! :D Seriously, well said.

LadyPact -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 4:36:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl The leather community does that. Personally, I think that it's a disservice to pretend to be something you're not. This is exactly why, even in the leather community, you find more and more that do not.

kalikshama -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 5:26:05 PM)
I had a friend who was not excited about the pledging part of joining a motorcycle club but he sucked it up in order to join and in the hopes that it would make him a better Dom. I never followed up with him about that...

DarkSteven -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 5:49:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: epiphiny43 German machinists start with a file and some round stock. When they master that tool, evidenced by the square shaft they produced, they move to the next tool. Eventually a competent worker can use every tool in the shop well. Including modern CAD/CAM. Not knowing how to use the tools usually means a college education and engineering degree. These guys are always designing things that can't be built and the machine shop people have to educate them over and over. When yer German machinist starts off by being a diestock and having the tool machine him for a while, before being a machinist, then yer analogy will be apt.

TheLilSquaw -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 5:51:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AussieMasterRay Is it advisable or even considered to become a sub in order to fully understand the relationship and true power exchange between a D and their sub? I remember when I first started getting involved in the lifestyle, for many that was the norm. For some that still is. For other's it's a hell no. You have to ask yourself what would the benefit be for YOU? Is this something YOU are willing to do? Then there is your answer.

breagha -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/22/2013 5:58:17 PM)
when i first entered the lifestyle my Master had me be Domme to other subs. i learned a lot from that experience. i didn't enjoy it as much as he would have liked me to but i wouldn't trade that experience. it helped me realise more about myself that i might not have before. i guess i essentially was a switch as i was still his.

HarryVanWinkle -> RE: Learning Curve? (1/23/2013 6:08:34 PM)
No. However, I would like to point out something from your profile that is complete, utter bullshit. "I seek knowledge and either a Mistress to teach me the true journey of submission" There is no "TRUE" journey of submission, nor of domination, nor of anything else. BDSM is not a one size fits all garment. Because every person, submissive, dominant or strawberry, is unique and unlike every other person, every person's "journey of submission" or domination or whatever must also be unique. You can't buy your BDSM off the rack. Not only must it be tailored specifically for you, but YOU yourself must do the tailoring. If you feel the need to try submitting, then try it. You might find that a submissive cut fits you far better than any dominant cut. Or, you might find that you like it both ways at different times. Or you might find that, for you, the hole "dominant/submissive" dynamic is BS and that you just want to have fun whupping some ass now and then. Or getting some ass whupped. Or any other of a million other possibilities.

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