quote:

Yes, this probably does narrow the field considerably but at my age, I've had my share of vanilla relationships where some kinky play occurs in the bedroom while we lay out our mutual responsibilities in the day to day.  I want to experience being controlled...for real...with consequences that contribute to shaping me into the person she envisions.  I would like to experience a transformation.  I'm sure there are people out there who would enjoy something like this and perhaps there are many more who have never really stopped and realized that it actually can be done.

quote:

who have woven the whole ritual, acting out, expression of being a Dominant, into their daily lives to the point that it's no effort for them at all because it's what they naturally enjoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

 
I would say my focus is on finding someone a few notches above the type you describe and beyond; the further the better.  Ideally, I would like to meet someone who naturally enjoys Domination and exploring the whole spectrum of how it can be expressed.  To me, that is how I understand the term "play" and would equate it to experimentation; exploring together what gives both of us the sense of fulfillment we enjoy and what doesn't.  It's not about "requirements" at all, especially if it's what both people seek; in this case it would be a natural occurence and expression of our personalities.  What's wrong with that?
 
Yes, this probably does narrow the field considerably but at my age, I've had my share of vanilla relationships where some kinky play occurs in the bedroom while we lay out our mutual responsibilities in the day to day.  I want to experience being controlled...for real...with consequences that contribute to shaping me into the person she envisions.  I would like to experience a transformation.  I'm sure there are people out there who would enjoy something like this and perhaps there are many more who have never really stopped and realized that it actually can be done.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

 
I would say my focus is on finding someone a few notches above the type you describe and beyond; the further the better.  Ideally, I would like to meet someone who naturally enjoys Domination and exploring the whole spectrum of how it can be expressed.  To me, that is how I understand the term "play" and would equate it to experimentation; exploring together what gives both of us the sense of fulfillment we enjoy and what doesn't.  It's not about "requirements" at all, especially if it's what both people seek; in this case it would be a natural occurence and expression of our personalities.  What's wrong with that?
 
Yes, this probably does narrow the field considerably but at my age, I've had my share of vanilla relationships where some kinky play occurs in the bedroom while we lay out our mutual responsibilities in the day to day.  I want to experience being controlled...for real...with consequences that contribute to shaping me into the person she envisions.  I would like to experience a transformation.  I'm sure there are people out there who would enjoy something like this and perhaps there are many more who have never really stopped and realized that it actually can be done.
 

One word: Micromanagement.

Did you ever consider that your desires/expectations are not realistic?  I believe that the more "control" a submissive wants his femdom to have (on a spectrum of *consistency*, *frequency* and *intenisty*) the farther and farther he gets from reality.  It's a very easy "fantasy" to have in your head because you are not the femdom who must live in the world of "control" -- control is not merely a series of actions. It's a mindset, and one that requires constant energy flow. Even femdoms need downtime.

Some subs scoff at the idea of "just in the bedroom" domination.  "Just in the bedroom" is not only because some people think BDSM = Sex = Bedroom. It's because BDSM+Kitchen and BDSM+backyard and BDSM+Trip to the Mall is exhausting, even for the most energetic of femdoms.

I have what I consider a really high, intense desire for bdsm and for a large range of activities.  However, I have had a few bdsm relationships where submissives desired that "continuum" of power to be flowing throughout the relationship, not just be subjected to my rushes of power or desires for control. Or, they wanted a regiment, a routine, almost like a schedule. Or, they wanted the underlying "fuel" of our relationship to be based on my power.  BURNOUT!!  In a matter of weeks, if not days.

I hope you will reconsider your ideals if this is sounding like what you seek.  Femdoms are not endlessly fueled this way (if there are some, I congratulate them on their energy levels). 

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub


Fast forward...
 
We have gotten to know each other quite a bit.  We have both gone through enough conversations about what we've observed in each other and I've been given enough instruction on how she expects me to behave and what my freedoms and limitations are (my boundaries if you will) and my duties.  In the course of our day, I would be doing my part to fulfill her expectations (because I willingly want to) and she will be inwardly observing my performance in dealing with the day to day events, knowing we both have agreed on how the D/s aspects underpin everything we do.  If I don't meet her expectations and depending on the degree of the disappointment or offense, a reprimand may be in order tailored to whatever happened.  Or it could be something more intense involving a change she has planned for me and feels some sort of reinforcement is necessary.  It could also be a moment where she simply wishes to express her control just because she can or is in the mood.
 
The context here could be anything from cleaning the home, how a trip to the supermarket takes place, fixing dinner, entertaining guests, to a full blown "session" of training with all the trimmings.  The point is the context is a fluid situation that changes spontaneously where absolute control is beyond reach at times while other times, there's adequate space for some serious concentration.
 
As far as our respective views of how this has been accomplished by others, I think it's perfectly expectable that they might differ.
 
anthrosub

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub


I totally agree with you.  I really don't expect to find a situation where the Dominant is "on" 24/7.  Instead, I believe there are people out there who have a healthy passion for experimenting with ideas and when in a relationship, work towards finding the happy medium between everyday life and time set aside to focus.  That happy medium will be found as we get to know each other and our respective individual responsibilities that are unavoidable and part of life.  There are also ways to signal when it's time to relax and have some "down time" without disrupting the momentum that's been established between us.  In fact, the very act of stepping in and out of the D/s aspects of the relationship can be seen as a responsibility (especially on my part), without interferring with enjoying said down time.
 
anthrosub

quote:

It may not be sexual, or *perceived* as sexual to alot of people who practice wiitwd.  But I think it has to be mutual.  I dont think anyone gives anything without feeling fulfilled in return. I think thats where alot of Dominants (not ALL) make their mistake.  They think there are people out there living and dying for no other reason than to be dedicated to another person's happiness, all while foresaking their own needs. IMO Dominants/Masters who expect this will probably go all their lives being disappointed. A sub/slave being motivated towards service-orientation is one thing.   Alot of submissives feel motived to serve and to please.  The problem is in finding Dominants/Masters who know how to *inspire*.  Without continuous inspiration from the Master, continuous dedication from the sub will be impossible.   Any relationship where one or the other party is not getting their needs met is doomed to failure.  Its not only about one persons pleasure and service.  You get back what you put in.  No matter which side of the equation you're on.  Its that simple. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I'd also like to keep the thread from taking a detour if possible.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladylexington

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I'd also like to keep the thread from taking a detour if possible.
 

Taking a detour? I'm still trying to understand your point.

quote:

The "Unpaid Labor Doctrine" exists and is quite functional in relationships -- it's called devotion and being in love. It is ironic that it exists a lot in vanilla relationships.  When a man loves a woman deeply, he will do anything for her, and he gets a tremendous amount of pleasure doing it.  He does not share this devotion with any woman, he does not seek out women to give it to; in fact, he often has to be very deeply involved to be this devoted.  But once he is, he will go to the ends of the earth to put a smile on the face of the woman he loves.

quote:

Then there are submissives.  They claim to offer this unconditional devotion, but it always has strings attached.  The femdom is expected to play those strings to get the desired effect -- submission and devotion.  When she does not, she has a malcontent on her hands.  Or, she is told she is not a true dominant. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

It may not be sexual, or *perceived* as sexual to alot of people who practice wiitwd.  But I think it has to be mutual.  I dont think anyone gives anything without feeling fulfilled in return. I think thats where alot of Dominants (not ALL) make their mistake.  They think there are people out there living and dying for no other reason than to be dedicated to another person's happiness, all while foresaking their own needs. IMO Dominants/Masters who expect this will probably go all their lives being disappointed. A sub/slave being motivated towards service-orientation is one thing.   Alot of submissives feel motived to serve and to please.  The problem is in finding Dominants/Masters who know how to *inspire*.  Without continuous inspiration from the Master, continuous dedication from the sub will be impossible.   Any relationship where one or the other party is not getting their needs met is doomed to failure.  Its not only about one persons pleasure and service.  You get back what you put in.  No matter which side of the equation you're on.  Its that simple. 

I don't disagree with anything you've said. In fact, I even took the liberty to italicize what I consider to be the key to your post.

I feel a need to serve and to please. However, there's an underlying sensual foundation to this which I believe is driven by my libido and my desire for an enhanced level of intimacy that I've been unable to achieve via vanilla relationships.

There's no doubt in my mind that if I ever found myself in a F/m relationship going long-term without my needs being met, I would leave the relationship... just as I would in a vanilla relationship.

Would anyone here react differently?

quote:

The "Unpaid Labor Doctrine" exists and is quite functional in relationships -- it's called devotion and being in love. It is ironic that it exists a lot in vanilla relationships.

quote:

Then there are submissives. They claim to offer this unconditional devotion, but it always has strings attached.

quote:

The femdom is expected to play those strings to get the desired effect -- submission and devotion. When she does not, she has a malcontent on her hands.

quote:

Does he consider it "unpaid labor doctrine"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

It may not be sexual, or *perceived* as sexual to alot of people who practice wiitwd.  But I think it has to be mutual.  I dont think anyone gives anything without feeling fulfilled in return. I think thats where alot of Dominants (not ALL) make their mistake.  They think there are people out there living and dying for no other reason than to be dedicated to another person's happiness, all while foresaking their own needs. IMO Dominants/Masters who expect this will probably go all their lives being disappointed. A sub/slave being motivated towards service-orientation is one thing.   Alot of submissives feel motived to serve and to please.  The problem is in finding Dominants/Masters who know how to *inspire*.  Without continuous inspiration from the Master, continuous dedication from the sub will be impossible.   Any relationship where one or the other party is not getting their needs met is doomed to failure.  Its not only about one persons pleasure and service.  You get back what you put in.  No matter which side of the equation you're on.  Its that simple. 

I don't disagree with anything you've said. In fact, I even took the liberty to italicize what I consider to be the key to your post.

I feel a need to serve and to please. However, there's an underlying sensual foundation to this which I believe is driven by my libido and my desire for an enhanced level of intimacy that I've been unable to achieve via vanilla relationships.

There's no doubt in my mind that if I ever found myself in a F/m relationship going long-term without my needs being met, I would leave the relationship... just as I would in a vanilla relationship.

Would anyone here react differently?

quote:

I just want to add from my own personal view of things.  I want to live in a headspace, created both by my actions and desires and my Mistress' actions and desires, that it's all about the Domme.  Service to her, worship of her, obedience to her.  But at the same time I will know through my trust of her she will be taking very good care of me and seeing that my needs are met.  My mind is on pleasing her, her mind is on taking care of me. 

A beautiful harmony IMO.

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladylexington

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I'd also like to keep the thread from taking a detour if possible.
 

Taking a detour? I'm still trying to understand your point.

At this point, I can only say never mind.  The thought I had with the original post never really got off the ground.
 
anthrosub

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladylexington

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I'd also like to keep the thread from taking a detour if possible.
 

Taking a detour? I'm still trying to understand your point.

At this point, I can only say never mind.  The thought I had with the original post never really got off the ground.
 
anthrosub

Anthro:

I understood your point exactly, and addressed it using a very good analogy.  Several others here understand what you have said as well. (And believe me, it was no easy feat to understand your original post).  But you seem to want to focus on those who misunderstood you by taking on an attitude with them.  What gives??  

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladylexington

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I'd also like to keep the thread from taking a detour if possible.
 

Taking a detour? I'm still trying to understand your point.

At this point, I can only say never mind.  The thought I had with the original post never really got off the ground.
 
anthrosub

Anthro:

I understood your point exactly, and addressed it using a very good analogy.  Several others here understand what you have said as well. (And believe me, it was no easy feat to understand your original post).  But you seem to want to focus on those who misunderstood you by taking on an attitude with them.  What gives??  

You're right (sorry about that).  It's not uncommon for topics I post to go off on various tangents and usually I get caught up in trying to manage what's being discussed.  In this instance, I overlooked your's and other's posts that did show you are on the same page with my first post.  So, I apologize to you and the rest.
 
It's never easy (at least for me) to get what I'm trying to say across in such a way that there aren't a lot of misinterpretations.  I can't do anything about those who have an axe to grind but for those who are clearly trying to understand (and aren't) I try to address their replies and hopefully after a few cycles things become clear.
 
Even this reply could be misread by some of the current participants so I need to add this disclaimer.  I can't say it all in a few words and often even in more than a couple replies.  It's just the nature of communicating in words.  Hopefully, most people keep this in mind as they read what's written.
 
anthrosub

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

But what's the underlying source that motivates such a malesub?

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

And herein lies the answer to the thread about why we as dominas are disappointed and/or never find what we seek. Once we have someone in service to us that truly lives to be pleasing and obedient....nothing less will ever suffice. We will be endlessly disappointed until someone else comes along who is similarly motivated.

Yes, "the problem" isn't in the submissives, its in what you seek. Subs don't want and therefore won't stay with The Unpaid Labor Doctrine for very long. Getting something for nothing IS very corrupting, so its no wonder you will be "endlessly disappointed" when the slave inevitably leaves The Unpaid Labor Doctrine and you are forced to find a replacement.

The "Unpaid Labor Doctrine" exists and is quite functional in relationships -- it's called devotion and being in love. It is ironic that it exists a lot in vanilla relationships.  When a man loves a woman deeply, he will do anything for her, and he gets a tremendous amount of pleasure doing it.  He does not share this devotion with any woman, he does not seek out women to give it to (unless he is desperately lonely); in fact, he often has to be very deeply involved to be this devoted.  But once he is, he will go to the ends of the earth to put a smile on the face of the woman he loves.

Then there are submissives.  They claim to offer this unconditional devotion, but it always has strings attached.  The femdom is expected to play those strings to get the desired effect -- submission and devotion.  When she does not, she has a malcontent on her hands.  Or, she is told she is not a true dominant.  Many of these subs are merely fetishists; others, though, do seek a deep level of submission, which I believe is idealized love and devotion.  The problem is that you cannot simply *apply* unconditional love and devotion to a woman and expect it to work.  First, she must desire it and *value* it (ie, love him back just as deeply).  Second, it cannot be just applied onto a relationship at the onset, or else it creates a very creepy stalker vibe.  It has to be genuine and come from the heart. 

You don't just invent devotion of this level.  Some subs seek it, and they idealize it in their head, and they want it and want to see it happen in a relationship.

In all of my longterm relationships, vanilla or kinky, the dynamic of unconditional love/serving came into place when mutual love/trust was established.  He would do anything for me -- anything it all -- if he knew it would bring me some pleasure or solitude.  All I need to do is ask.  And, it includes suffering or submitting to my sadistic desires, also. Would he do that for any woman? Hell no. 

Does he consider it "unpaid labor doctrine"?  Of course not. He does get something back in return; shared love.  Some men are wired to express love and affection through service and have a built in "desire to please" (even vanilla men).  Others are on a different spectrum but find partners that fall in that same area. 

Those that do not believe in this kind of submission have never felt true love.  You don't feel *used* when you devote yourself or give unconditionally -- hell no, you feel GRATITUDE for having the opportunity to please the woman you love so dearly.   Is your love so bitter?

On her birthday, do you feel obligated and resentful because you are expected to give a gift, or do you get excited and joyous that you have the opportunity to celebrate your love for her?  For a submissive man, or a devoted man, he seeks to celebrate this love every single day.

Akasha