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How wolves and humans became pals - 1/24/2013 7:08:32 AM

PeonForHer

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I always wondered exactly how this happened. Some new research and a new theory:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21142870

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RE: How wolves and humans became pals - 1/24/2013 9:51:20 AM

ARIES83

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Very interesting stuff, but the idea that dogs
evolved on the waste dump dosen't need to be
related to agriculture, Middens are also made
by nomadic hunter-gather societies and
depending on the activities of the particular
people responsible, some contain predominately
bones/ shells and slaughtered animal waste in
general.

Not only that, but such waste dumps would also
attract vermin that could serve as prey for
opportunistic predators.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden

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RE: How wolves and humans became pals - 1/24/2013 12:09:49 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Very interesting stuff, but the idea that dogs
evolved on the waste dump dosen't need to be
related to agriculture, Middens are also made
by nomadic hunter-gather societies and
depending on the activities of the particular
people responsible, some contain predominately
bones/ shells and slaughtered animal waste in
general.

Not only that, but such waste dumps would also
attract vermin that could serve as prey for
opportunistic predators.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden

The study actually was about the number of starch digestion genes in wolf and dog DNA. Dogs have a lot more so it was speculated that dogs evolved from wolves who were better able to digest grains and grain based food found in the waste dumps of early farming communities.

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RE: How wolves and humans became pals - 1/24/2013 1:25:55 PM

ARIES83

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Yes it was an intresting read... but the idea that
dogs evolved on the waste dump on the outskirts
of human habitation, doesn't need to be related to
agriculture...

quote:

"Fossil evidence suggests some populations could have been around tens of thousands of years ago, long before the emergence of agriculture."

"It could be that dog domestication started once with some animals staying with humans which were then regularly back-crossed with wolves and that could have the same effect. But there could have been completely independent domestications. What is clear is that the number of bone remains is very rare more than 14,000 years ago."

"When we look at the wolf genome, we only see one copy of the gene [for the amylase enzyme] on each chromosome. When we look at the dog genome, we see a range from two to 15 copies; and on average a dog carries seven copies more than the wolf.

That even suggests there are some modern dog
breeds with similar dietary capabilities to the wolf,
can you see how it doesn't necessarily have to
follow that the beginnings of how dogs originated
need be related to agriculture?

A better explanation IMO would be that modern
dogs descended from earlier dogs and one trait
that has resulted is that modern dogs are better
able to utilise the same food we do, a function of
the niche they occupy. As opposed to earlier dogs
who were no doubt closer to wolves in their
dietary requirements.

And anyway,
I don't really think there need be some evolutionary
change, wolves>dogs in order to believe they could
coexist with early humans, people have wolves as
pets today, people keep other wild animals as pets
as well, I could see people keeping pets way back
then... my dogs a bastard haha, the result of some
horny dog running around the neighbourhood, it's
not to much of a stretch to imagine what happens
when your pet is tied up outside of a night and
some wild male makes a booty call, you go from
having one pet to a whole lot of adorable puppies
which then grow up looking at you as family.

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RE: How wolves and humans became pals - 1/24/2013 7:11:59 PM

theRose4U

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Considering that starch based "bag foods" for dogs were only available the last 30 years & used almost exclusively for domestic pets would call the study tragically flawed. Starch & grains ARE NOT a natural part of the dog diet.

Animal behavior I studied dates the wolf joining humans to caveman times. Wolves as preditors likely were drawn to the meat scraps of humans. Pups found by humans or injured wolves helped by humans are the most likely domestic cross overs. Much more likely than cocker spaniels evolving in food scrap heaps. Today selective breeding still changes the look of animals (head tilt on english bull terrier, hips on american GSD as examples). In less than 4 generations the entire look was changed to the detriment of the breed. Wolf evolution was likely slower with heavy coat not being needed in warmer climates, waterproof coats being needed in fishing tribes & the like being "localized gene changes from environment"
This is currently being seen in the fish of lake malawi. Since wild specimines have been kept in captivity almost 40 years specimines of the original base species are no longer recognized (because they look so differet in captivity). These survivors of long thought extinct strains have evolved in size, coloration & agression as this was required for survival. Changing breeding habits, living conditions & even climate to survive changed indentifyable traits & even DNA over time.

So my opinion of this study is its poo based on the faulty premise that domestic pets WERE eating non-offal (stomach contents) grains before 1970 when purina introduced kibble. Its simply not true

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