RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (Full Version)

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Darkfeather -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 1:07:53 AM)

Insex was a personal "project" of I believe two guys. The problem was, it got too big for its own good. In the beginning, they had a solid few models that did scenes, and were well aware of the risks involved. Later, as the popularity grew, more models sought to star in an "Insex" film. Eventually, some of them weren't prepared for the harshness, and lawsuits began. The next iteration, kink.com, tries to walk the middle line between realism and showmanship. New models are handled with kit gloves. Though they can still get harsh, it only happens with trusted models




Just0Plain0Mike -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 1:38:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

Insex was a personal "project" of I believe two guys. The problem was, it got too big for its own good. In the beginning, they had a solid few models that did scenes, and were well aware of the risks involved. Later, as the popularity grew, more models sought to star in an "Insex" film. Eventually, some of them weren't prepared for the harshness, and lawsuits began. The next iteration, kink.com, tries to walk the middle line between realism and showmanship. New models are handled with kit gloves. Though they can still get harsh, it only happens with trusted models


I believe that the new iteration of INSEX is Intersec, not kink.com.




nimue1 -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 3:45:29 AM)

The first part is actually from a documentary called "Graphic Sexual Horror" which is a documentary about Insex.com - which is the site the clip showing the actual bondage is from.

I've been involved in shooting for several European websites (both in front of and behind the camera) for the best part of a decade now, and there are always safewords when we are shooting, and the top will check in with the model throughout to ensure they are ok. As someone mentioned above, you don't see models safewording, becuase this is edited out of the final footage before it it published.

I cannot comment across the board, but I know on every set that I personally have been on, limits are discussed in advance, and doubled checked on the day of the shoot, and there have been safewords which when used are respected. And generally the more extreme ideas we shoot are suggested by the models.




TheLilSquaw -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 5:16:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz


Kink.com is SO FREAKING ANAL (ha!). The scenes are agreed to beforehand, and the model is filmed before and after scenes verbalizing both her part, and her consent.



There are many large and small production companies that have begun doing THIS simply to cover their asses. Myself included.




LizDeluxe -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 8:06:53 AM)

That clip you posted is hugely misleading. If you look at her complete statement in the documentary "Graphic Sexual Horror" (from which they artfully grafted her statements) she clearly says it was not rape and she could have used her safeword mechanism. She does go on to say that they were discouraged from using their safewords. As is usually the case in life, there is always another side to the story and more facts to be known if you search for them.





hlen5 -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 8:13:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw



........Example: They agree to do a bondage/ intercourse video but are told there will be a condom worn. They male model slips off the condom and goes raw.




My first thought to that - Shoot the son of a bitch!!




LizDeluxe -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 8:34:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather
Insex was a personal "project" of I believe two guys. The problem was, it got too big for its own good. In the beginning, they had a solid few models that did scenes, and were well aware of the risks involved. Later, as the popularity grew, more models sought to star in an "Insex" film. Eventually, some of them weren't prepared for the harshness, and lawsuits began. The next iteration, kink.com, tries to walk the middle line between realism and showmanship. New models are handled with kit gloves. Though they can still get harsh, it only happens with trusted models


I never read about lawsuits. As I recall the feds clamped down on the owner's credit card processors and when the money stopped he closed up shop and sold it.




Darkfeather -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 9:18:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

Insex was a personal "project" of I believe two guys. The problem was, it got too big for its own good. In the beginning, they had a solid few models that did scenes, and were well aware of the risks involved. Later, as the popularity grew, more models sought to star in an "Insex" film. Eventually, some of them weren't prepared for the harshness, and lawsuits began. The next iteration, kink.com, tries to walk the middle line between realism and showmanship. New models are handled with kit gloves. Though they can still get harsh, it only happens with trusted models


I believe that the new iteration of INSEX is Intersec, not kink.com.

quote:

Intersec


Actually, Insex was split into two sites, Hogtied, for ropework, and Infernal Restraints, for the use of metal. Hogtied was brought into the kink.com family, along with Device Bondage, a site similar to Infernal Restraints. The two guys who established Insex, are still active in those sites




Darkfeather -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 9:23:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather
Insex was a personal "project" of I believe two guys. The problem was, it got too big for its own good. In the beginning, they had a solid few models that did scenes, and were well aware of the risks involved. Later, as the popularity grew, more models sought to star in an "Insex" film. Eventually, some of them weren't prepared for the harshness, and lawsuits began. The next iteration, kink.com, tries to walk the middle line between realism and showmanship. New models are handled with kit gloves. Though they can still get harsh, it only happens with trusted models


I never read about lawsuits. As I recall the feds clamped down on the owner's credit card processors and when the money stopped he closed up shop and sold it.


There were a few factors in the shutdown. They were getting a LOT of decency violation hits. It just became easier to start over than to continue with the site




Missokyst -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 11:51:39 AM)

oh man... I am one sick puppy. I found that hot.




Darkfeather -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 12:21:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

oh man... I am one sick puppy. I found that hot.


They have always been quite creative. I have been a supporter of their sites since the old Insex days, and the new incarnation, Device bondage, Infernal Restraints, etc... lets just say their live interactive webcasts can get really intense sometimes




TheLilSquaw -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 2:06:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


My first thought to that - Shoot the son of a bitch!!



I agree!




DesFIP -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 4:28:01 PM)

I know a couple of bondage models. They use safewords or gestures. Plus as it's been said, you can stop and check and then go back to what you were doing, editing out the safeword and check.

Kink.com is a very well run business. In an industry which gets a lot of public attention and in which abuses would be spread all over the front page. I don't doubt that they faked a rape scene and that in the presumably freestyle interview after the actress said precisely what they agreed she should say, in order to sell to the people who get off on nonconsent.




LizDeluxe -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 5:14:13 PM)

The link that the OP posted is to a video that includes edited excerpts of an interview where the model discusses the scene in question. The edited interview portion is incomplete and intentionally misleads the viewer. Her comments were taken out of context. She clearly states that she was in control and could have stopped the activity even though that was frowned upon. I don't doubt that it caught her off guard. And she continued to come back. Mostly for the money, she said. If she had felt the way that the video link portrayed her she probably would not have returned.

There is nothing quite like the old Insex stuff. Most of the stuff produced under the Kink.com brand is pretty unremarkable, in my opinion. Every once in a while while one of those videos captures my attention. The old Insex stuff is the bomb.




littlewonder -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 5:19:27 PM)

Yeah, the original Insex hasn't been around for a few years now and the ex Dom taped absolutely everything from that site. It was his favorite place ever and he would get together with some of the people every now and then from there. Personally I have my personal thoughts but that's neither here nor there lol. InSex was poorly laid out and they seemed to be completely ignorant about the business at the time.




xssve -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 5:54:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nimue1

The first part is actually from a documentary called "Graphic Sexual Horror" which is a documentary about Insex.com - which is the site the clip showing the actual bondage is from.

I've been involved in shooting for several European websites (both in front of and behind the camera) for the best part of a decade now, and there are always safewords when we are shooting, and the top will check in with the model throughout to ensure they are ok. As someone mentioned above, you don't see models safewording, becuase this is edited out of the final footage before it it published.

I cannot comment across the board, but I know on every set that I personally have been on, limits are discussed in advance, and doubled checked on the day of the shoot, and there have been safewords which when used are respected. And generally the more extreme ideas we shoot are suggested by the models.

Right - first who is "they"?

Does every one of the myriad fly by night porn mills use safe words? If they don't want to get sued, yeah.

Problem is, not all women will use a safeword, I know at least one "extreme" company had to just had to go on hiatus because the women wouldn't or couldn't use a safeword.

Safewords don't make it safe, a dom/top who ain't an idiot makes it much safer.




HarryVanWinkle -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 6:29:06 PM)

That clip is from Insex or one of its successor sites, of which there are several, including http://www.hardtied.com/ The documentary Graphic Sexual Horror http://www.graphicsexualhorror.com/. was made about them. All scenes are done with safewords and signals in place. All scenes are pre-negotiated in detail before shooting. Models are paid up to $4,000 per day, depending on what they consent to and whether or not they safeword.

It would surprise me not in the least to find that this particular clip, with the other somebody mentioned, was put together and posted by some antiporn group. One clue is that clips from Insex and its successors ALWAYS have their label in the lower right corner. It was obviously cut out of this one.




LizDeluxe -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 6:58:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
InSex was poorly laid out and they seemed to be completely ignorant about the business at the time.


Insex was a financial windfall for the owner. The owner stated that once he went online as a paid site he made more money in two weeks than he made in six months as a college professor. He said it was almost as if people were just waiting for content like this. He wasn't ignorant at all about the business. He always figured that the government would come after him through the court system. Obscenity suits are hard to win. So much of obscenity is a matter or perspective. So they leaned on the banks who processed his site's income which was substantial. Their claim was that porn sites often are used by terrorists to funnel money. Once they did that he closed the site. Reportedly he sold the site name and content for several million dollars to some overseas entity. I don't know how sites like Kink.com flourish. I know the different brands under it's label are not nearly as intense as the old Insex but they still would seem to be enough to piss off the feds.




GotSteel -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 7:39:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather
The video in question is actually two parts. The first is from a larger special about abuse in the porn industry. The model claims she negotiated one thing and was then forced to do another in scene. The second part is the actual video, from a group of sites called kink.com, most likely Hogtied. These sites are well known for their rigid bondage and harsh treatment. So is what she claims true, who knows

I've seen kink.com use a sort of double moan as a safeword.




Darkfeather -> RE: Don't they use safe words or, when gagged, safe moves when filming BDSM? (1/26/2013 10:36:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
InSex was poorly laid out and they seemed to be completely ignorant about the business at the time.


Insex was a financial windfall for the owner. The owner stated that once he went online as a paid site he made more money in two weeks than he made in six months as a college professor. He said it was almost as if people were just waiting for content like this. He wasn't ignorant at all about the business. He always figured that the government would come after him through the court system. Obscenity suits are hard to win. So much of obscenity is a matter or perspective. So they leaned on the banks who processed his site's income which was substantial. Their claim was that porn sites often are used by terrorists to funnel money. Once they did that he closed the site. Reportedly he sold the site name and content for several million dollars to some overseas entity. I don't know how sites like Kink.com flourish. I know the different brands under it's label are not nearly as intense as the old Insex but they still would seem to be enough to piss off the feds.


kink.com skirts the line netween sex and bdsm, where Insex took a bazooka and blew holes in it. Now some sites will engage in sexual activities, but only with trusted partners, and only under heavy paid/member protections




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